Posts by garyneal

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

garyneal

You cant just say logic or the Bible, or Jesus, OK all these things are good, so if not JWs then which option is nearest to these things?

I did not read all 46 pages but I can offer a few suggestions based on a few questions. My apologies for repeating anything.

Do you still prefer Arian Christology over Trinitarian Christology? If so then there may not be too many options since most Protestant churches are largely Trinitarian. I would seek out former witnesses who are Christian. There are some splinter groups from the witnesses. Two that come to mind are The Lord's Witnesses and The International Bible Students Association (yes the original Russelite bible students).

The Christadelphians also believe similar to the witnesses and some even believe that the witnesses stole a lot their theology from them.

Of course, good luck finding these groups locally since the religions are very small but look into them to see if they match your beliefs and values.

Religious affiliation is really about seeking others with similar values and beliefs to your own. There is no absolute truth in terms of religious beliefs.

52

People hate God?

by looter in

jw
friends

it is a pain that certain individuals pride themselves on hating god, who created everything.

like it's understandable that you choose to not believe in him because of your selfishness or thinking skills but to hate him is forcing it a bit.

i'm very thankful that those such as myself have the courage to believe in the lord.

garyneal

My two sons are now 27 & 28 but as teenagers they did, of course, know absolutely everything!

Yes. He reminds me so much of me when I was 20 and involved with the IFBs. I was so dogmatic, so sure I had the correct religion, and so convinced that I needed to save everybody. It's amazing how little we know while thinking we know everything at that age.

52

People hate God?

by looter in

jw
friends

it is a pain that certain individuals pride themselves on hating god, who created everything.

like it's understandable that you choose to not believe in him because of your selfishness or thinking skills but to hate him is forcing it a bit.

i'm very thankful that those such as myself have the courage to believe in the lord.

garyneal

Looter, if God really exists and is everything you say then does he really need defending?

People hate Him, people don't hate Him, so what?

Why must it be YOUR job to vindicate Him?

If you really know love then show it. Listen to people, try to understand their position. Didn't Paul say that if you're doing these things without love then you're a resounding gong?

Meditate on that before you try to tell a nonbeliever what he or she is thinking.

17

Another trinity thing

by Mozzie in

i have gone through the ones on here, i have read so much about it and everyone seems to have a different idea as to what the creed actually came up with in the sense of explaining it, religious leaders from most denominations seem to try to explain it and are all different, it does your head in just trying to read half their stuff.

when i was going door to door, i knew how to argue against it, but now trying to learn about it.. i was reading an article of the net about this and how christ emptied himself of all deity and that, but with all the statements made and arguments to and for it, one question was brought up.

when jesus was asked by his disciples about the time of the end, jesus replied neither i nor the angels know the hour, only the father.

garyneal

What cofty said. Basically, the trinity doctrine was devised to explain how the Christians could worship Christ while simultaneously being monotheists. To claim that Jesus is God and the Father is also God is to invite polytheism into your religion, which is a no no in a monotheistic religion. Therefore, the Trinity was concocted that explains that there is only one God that is manifested in three persons. Confused? So are most Christians.

44

The Atheist Delusion

by looter in

jw
friends

atheist delusion.

just want to know what the ex jw community thinks about this video and also offer my pov.

the video was actually an advertisement on here.

garyneal

looter,

You really don't seem to get it but it is cool because I did not get it either when I was a theist. Let's see if this helps.

You see, all people who disbelief God always say there is no evidence.

Let's change some words. I am going to assume you are a Christian, non-witness.

You see, all people who disbelief that Christ began reigning invisibly in 1914 always say there is no evidence.

Do you believe in 1914? If not, you are just simply a poor lost soul who needs guidance. Here's another example.

The many accounts of evidence for God is simply to much to list on here.

The many accounts of evidence for Allah and His profit Mohammed are simply too much to list on here.

Do you believe in Allah or his profit Mohammed? If not, you are a poor lost unbeliever who will simply burn in hell for your unbelief.

Do you get my meaning?

44

The Atheist Delusion

by looter in

jw
friends

atheist delusion.

just want to know what the ex jw community thinks about this video and also offer my pov.

the video was actually an advertisement on here.

garyneal

Not sure if you guys watched the video or not, but people were dumbfounded and you might even say blindsided when the people told them proof for a God. It's just an example of how no matter how much you think he doesn't exist, you could be very wrong.

It's pretty clear and obvious that you're not going to listen to anything anyone tells you but in the off chance that you might here's a brief synopsis of my story. I was a born again Christian who really loved the Lord and loved being a Christian. While I was not raised in the church, I believed that it was the right place for me and I became a baptized believer in 1991. Throughout the 90's I had a cold/hot relationship with Christ but in the late 90s I was very on fire.

I married my wife, a JW, in 2003 and I still attended church thinking that my faith was correct. When she decided to reject it and 'progress in the truth' I had a crisis of faith and had to know for certain if my beliefs were correct. I researched what they taught me and compared it to the Bible and found flaws. Then I dug deeper and found a lot of flaws in the JW faith. I was emboldened and felt that my faith was vindicated. I found a church and began taking our only daughter there every Sunday.

I joined this group sometime that same year still on fire for the Lord but I began to see how other Christians (like yourself) won't listen to logical arguments advanced by the atheists on this board. Many of them behaved the same way witnesses do when non-witnesses SHOWED them evidence that undermined their beliefs. I began to wonder if I was behaving the same way and had to know for myself why I believed what I believed and did I really have a sound rational reason for it. If there was no threat of hell, would I still believe? You see, I had to be able to follow 1 Peter 3:15 and therefore I had to have a sound rational argument for my faith.

At the end of the day, I had to believe in as many true things and as few false things as possible so I began following the evidence. I needed to be able to say that I had no reason to defend the truth because the truth stands on its own and does not need my defense. Therefore, I had to know what that truth really was and that's how I ended up here, an atheist.

Ray Comfort, banana-man, does not listen to atheists and makes all kinds of assumptions about their position that is totally untrue. I'll give him points for his outreach but if he really wants to reach atheists he first needs to start actually listening to them and try to understand them. Instead he thinks he has all the answers and thinks he knows the atheist position when he doesn't have a clue.

If you're trying to reach atheists, you first need to listen to them, understand their position, and try to respect why they arrived at their position. Some atheists may reject God because they want to live how they want. IE. God does not allow me to be gay, I want to be gay, so fuck God. However, people like that are not really atheist in the strictest sense as they still hold some kind of belief in a god that they reject. I, and other atheists like me, do not reject God, I just simply cannot find good enough arguments to prove that he actually exists.

Do you have any such arguments?

37

In love with a JW girl

by rastapau in

need advise.

i was in a relation with a jw girl for almost three years(im am not jw) and we are so inlove with each other until someone saw us from her congregation and she was disfellowed and that where the oddness happened.

her family and friends are not talking to her anymore, she wants me to stop seeing and talking to her anymore not until i became a baptized jw.

garyneal

Yikes, what a crazy situation. Normally, I would join the chorus and advise you to stay away but this whole situation is messed up. Do whatever.

If you're interested in what life with a witness was like for me, read my earlier posts. It's gotten better but we still have some disagreements over how to raise our daughters regarding religion.

28

The question no JW can answer without resorting to babbling

by Crabby in

let me ask you only one question.

first i need to clarify a few things.

in the new world translation, john 1:1 reads: “in [the] beginning the word was, and the word was with god, and the word was a god.” then in isaiah 9:6 (nwt) we read: “for there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder.

garyneal

I think crabby left but I agree with the overall consensus and that trying to argue the Trinity with a JW is a pointless endeavor. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. However, I do find it interesting that JW's can claim to be monotheistic and then say that there are multiple gods. As best as I can understand it, that does not compute and the Trinity teaching was formulated primarily to proclaim Jesus to be God while simultaneously adhering to monotheism. There is only one God but this God is manifested in three seperate, co-equal, and co-eternal persons.

I'm not saying this is correct, I'm just saying that this was formulated because Judaism was strictly monotheist so Christianity also had to be monotheist. The whole notion of 'true' god 'false' god does not compute. In monotheism, there is only one God, everyone else isn't a god at all, end of story. By proclaiming Jesus to be a god as the NWT John 1:1 puts it, you introduce polytheism.

103

JW and the Sabbath

by Andromeda in

hello brothers and sisters and truth seekers,.

i am an active jehovah's witness.

i don't believe in 1914 and i'm tototally against their way of dealing with abuse cases.

garyneal

And perhaps I would be blessed on your eyes if I told you not another person in my family is a JW. Which is in fact truth so I wouldn't have to face harsh consequences as others would in that regard.

I get it now, you chose to be a Jehovah's Witness and therefore it is your belief by choice. I can respect that and I can relate as I too never had any family that attended church regularly and chose to become an Independent Fundamental Baptist early in my Christian life.

If I may ask, are you married? If not, do you plan to marry "only in the Lord?" For you, that means only Jehovah's Witnesses as for me it meant only other fundamentalist Baptists. Being someone who does not see the WT as the only source of truth you may end up, much like I did, find information from those who even your religion deems as untrustworthy to be factually correct. If that happens, you may find it difficult to support a religion like yours that, similar to my old church, promotes a very limited and narrow minded world view.

If you end up marrying (assuming you're not married) outside the witnesses you may find, much like I did when I married a witness, that they have a sincere faith in God and may find that difficult to reconcile with WT teachings that all non-witnesses are not serving God (much as my IFB church said of all other churches).

Good luck to you, keep on searching for truth and following the evidence. To quote CT Russell, "...seek truth where ever you find it, no matter what it contradicts."

fwiw, I am an atheist though I do appreciate and respect a lot of Christian teachings even though I no longer consider the Bible to be the inerrant word of God. I'm not really sure if a deity exists but if one does I cannot imagine that this deity is so concerned with petty things that man made religions concoct in order to show outward devotion. Remember what Jesus said about the Pharisee who put on a display of their devotion to God. I see many Christians, and JWs in particular in their outwardly showy displays of devotion, in the same light.

18

Do you think this would work?

by LisaRose in

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garyneal

Our neighbor has this sign on his front door.