Hi all, Many of us joined the Organization because we beleived we were building a true relationship with Jehovah (YHWH). Like most faders, I had faded for several years; yet I still had a spiritual conscience during this time. I became quite worldly (in the sense that I no longer cared what I was doing-to a degree). However, my spirituality was always there. I am hoping that what I say next will be faith strengthening to many of you who are going through a somewhat difficult and confusing time; and hope I can encourage some of you to not give up completely. I never thought I would get involved with the witnesses ever again, due to what I had read about their history. I got to a point where I despised the fact that I was ever a witness. I even began to doubt the word (with all its contradictions - I read age of reason by Thomas Paine, given to me by a relative). But then, one day, I thought to myself, that I had never really read the bible through properly. All the years I was a JW, i NEVER READ THE BIBLE THROUGH!!! Was it fair of me to make judgement on this book that claimed to be the written word of God, when I had never read it through? The answer to that is clearly 'NO'. I therefore decided that I would read it through using the method highlighted in a bible I bought at a book shop. It suggested I read 2 or 3 cahpters of the old testament and 1 chapter of the new every day. At the same time, I would pray to God to give me insight and a second chance. If this book truly was inspired, I would feel the holy spirit affecting me in my life. I would know in my heart whether there was something there. Over the past year and a half, I can only say that I have been amazed at what I have read. So much so that I was telling friends and relatives about the wonderful things within these amazing pages. My spirituality was coming back again and I could truly feel it. I decided to take the brave step of returning to the meetings as my family are all involved. Yet, I knew I would be going back with a completely different mindset. I was going back knowing that the society are in error in a number of their teachings, but still strangely felt that I could still have a strong relationship with YHWH because he understands my predicament. He knows I sincerely love him and his son Jesus. He knows I pray to him earnestly each day. He knows that I am aware that men have set themslves up on a pedestal and are lording it over people like you and I who are or once were sincere in our worship of YHWH. Jehovah understands this and I love him for that (as a child loves his/her father). I have also learned that YHWH is a merciful loving God and only wants his children to be obedient and to respect him by building a realtionship with him. Sadly some of our brothers are stumbling us (ie the self proclaimed FDS) and whence the reason for the tragedy we see to day in that many are leaving due to the intolerable man made rules of these ones. Our obedience is to Jehovah, not men. We can have a wonderful relationship with him, despite the fact that many of us are being stumbled by the harsh man made rules of those who have decided to lord it over us. I would strongly, suggest you read the wonderful, powerful essays and articles from the following site. This will help to understand why many of us are in the situation we are in today, and will encourage us to regain that sincere love we once had when we first began our relationship with God. I truly feel the holy spirit in my life and know that you can too. If it werent for the holy spirit helping me and guiding me, I would have fallen away again. Not one elder has bothered to encourage me spiritually since going back. This shows the power of the holy spirit, as many times over the psat year, I could have easily have been stumbled. Jehovah views each of us a precious. Remember, it is he we have a realtionship with, not men and there man made rules. Do not allow these men to put you of your faith in God. The shepherds who are leading the flock will be accountable. Trust in Jehovah and turn your heart toward him. Philemon 1:3 Grace to you (all) and peace from God our father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Please cut, paste and add to favourites the following site. Happy reading. http://www.perimeno.ca/Index_A.htm TE
Truthexplorer
JoinedPosts by Truthexplorer
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52
Faders are indeed a large army...
by undercover in...and i think it's starting to show.. i started a thread the other day about being hounded after several years of having successfully(?
) faded.
i've been taken aback a bit the recent developments but i'm making a new strategy...one that depends more on sticking to my guns and laying the cards on the table.
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Faders are indeed a large army...
by undercover in...and i think it's starting to show.. i started a thread the other day about being hounded after several years of having successfully(?
) faded.
i've been taken aback a bit the recent developments but i'm making a new strategy...one that depends more on sticking to my guns and laying the cards on the table.
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Truthexplorer
Hi all, Many of us joined the Organization because we beleived we were building a true relationship with Jehovah (YHWH). Like most faders, I had faded for several years; yet I still had a spiritual conscience during this time. I became quite worldly (in the sense that I no longer cared what I was doing-to a degree). However, my spirituality was always there. I am hoping that what I say next will be faith strengthening to many of you who are going through a somewhat difficult and confusing time; and hope I can encourage some of you to not give up completely. I never thought I would get involved with the witnesses ever again, due to what I had read about their history. I got to a point where I despised the fact that I was ever a witness. I even began to doubt the word (with all its contradictions - I read age of reason by Thomas Paine, given to me by a relative). But then, one day, I thought to myself, that I had never really read the bible through properly. All the years I was a JW, i NEVER READ THE BIBLE THROUGH!!! Was it fair of me to make judgement on this book that claimed to be the written word of God, when I had never read it through? The answer to that is clearly 'NO'. I therefore decided that I would read it through using the method highlighted in a bible I bought at a book shop. It suggested I read 2 or 3 cahpters of the old testament and 1 chapter of the new every day. At the same time, I would pray to God to give me insight and a second chance. If this book truly was inspired, I would feel the holy spirit affecting me in my life. I would know in my heart whether there was something there. Over the past year and a half, I can only say that I have been amazed at what I have read. So much so that I was telling friends and relatives about the wonderful things within these amazing pages. My spirituality was coming back again and I could truly feel it. I decided to take the brave step of returning to the meetings as my family are all involved. Yet, I knew I would be going back with a completely different mindset. I was going back knowing that the society are in error in a number of their teachings, but still strangely felt that I could still have a strong relationship with YHWH because he understands my predicament. He knows I sincerely love him and his son Jesus. He knows I pray to him earnestly each day. He knows that I am aware that men have set themslves up on a pedestal and are lording it over people like you and I who are or once were sincere in our worship of YHWH. Jehovah understands this and I love him for that (as a child loves his/her father). I have also learned that YHWH is a merciful loving God and only wants his children to be obedient and to respect him by building a realtionship with him. Sadly some of our brothers are stumbling us (ie the self proclaimed FDS) and whence the reason for the tragedy we see to day in that many are leaving due to the intolerable man made rules of these ones. Our obedience is to Jehovah, not men. We can have a wonderful relationship with him, despite the fact that many of us are being stumbled by the harsh man made rules of those who have decided to lord it over us. I would strongly, suggest you read the wonderful, powerful essays and articles from the following site. This will help to understand why many of us are in the situation we are in today, and will encourage us to regain that sincere love we once had when we first began our relationship with God. I truly feel the holy spirit in my life and know that you can too. If it werent for the holy spirit helping me and guiding me, I would have fallen away again. Not one elder has bothered to encourage me spiritually since going back. This shows the power of the holy spirit, as many times over the psat year, I could have easily have been stumbled. Jehovah views each of us a precious. Remember, it is he we have a realtionship with, not men and there man made rules. Do not allow these men to put you of your faith in God. The shepherds who are leading the flock will be accountable. Trust in Jehovah and turn your heart toward him. Philemon 1:3 Grace to you (all) and peace from God our father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Please cut, paste and add to favourites the following site. Happy reading. http://www.perimeno.ca/Index_A.htm TE
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Jehovah's "name" real or not?
by highdose inis the name jehovah as gods name without dispute?
has the wtbs ever addmitted any where that gods name is not actauly known?.
need references for a project of mine please!.
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Truthexplorer
HighDose,
You will see from most of the comments on this thread that it is unclear as to what precisely is Gods name. It is ambiguous to say the least. No one knows for certain exactly how it should be pronounced- not even the sole channel on earth today (The FDS) -and that says something in iself.
I follow the simple example that Jesus mentioned as to how we address God/Elohim. You can then pray to him to your hearts content without the worry that you are calling him by the wrong name. Have a look at Mat 5:9. Jesus said that when we pray we should say...'our Father'...... That makes perfect sense to address him as such, considering that we are unsure as to how his name should be properly pronounced. But as the rest of the scripture says...let his name be sanctified....One day it will be sanctified. Satan has done his utmost in this sytem to confuse everyone, but one day all things will be made absolutely clear.
TE
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Have you noticed ? the GB's purposeful Tone while speaking??
by freewilly01 inafter being absent for years from the borgorg i really noticed the purposeful fake tone of the voices of the gb.
i was just surfing cults and cult leaders and found an interesting link with the gb and cult leaders...... in the satirist:.
the article was:.
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Truthexplorer
Maybe a stint on the Gerry Springer show would draw them out of their shell abit; and show us their human side
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Jehovah's "name" real or not?
by highdose inis the name jehovah as gods name without dispute?
has the wtbs ever addmitted any where that gods name is not actauly known?.
need references for a project of mine please!.
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Truthexplorer
Hi - Highdose
They have admitted that the name Jehovah is not the most accurate but continue to use this name because of peoples familiarity with it through out the centuries. In fact they admit that Yahweh is probably more accurate than Jehovah.
See 'The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures' (1985 edition) pages 10-12.
TE
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THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!
by Hobo Ken inthis is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.
podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.
also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .
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Truthexplorer
Hi Hobo ken (Matt)
I listened to all your podcasts (listened to podcast 12 last night) and found them all intriuging. Though, for me, the jury is still out as to the rights and wrongs of recording each of the meetings held, I did however find it fascinating to say the least as to how things progressed. Whats more, given the fact that the GB themselves 'secretly' recorded phone conversations during the 'apostasy' period in 1981 brings things into perspectivefor me.
At one point, you were asked if you beleived that Jehovah is using the organisation on earth today and if you beleived the FDS were Gods sole channel of communication; from what I remember, you agreed with them and I was hoping you would say that you beleive that the work of preaching here on earth today is organised, but in the sense that it is Jesus who is the head of the Christian congregation and that it is the holy spirit which is directly guiding Christians, both on an individual and Congregational level to preach the good news of the kingdom throughout the world (Rev 1:17). I would have also loved it if you pointed out to them that for most of the book of Acts, it is littered with proof that the holy spirit did exactly this in the first century. That would have made them think a bit. I realise though that this is easier said than done; and again you handled yourself remarkably well, particularly in such a difficult situation.
Ian Shanks sounded like he was going for the jugular at times, as if he was fed up with you for skirting round things. He came across as if he just wanted you to say things contrary to the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and simply to get rid of you. Yet understandably, what else could you do. If it was me, I would have probably done the same given similiar circumstances. Being shunned by family and friends is no small thing.
I liked the way you asked them to read 1 Cor 4:1-5 as you were leaving. Hopefully they will have done this and reflected on these scriptures when they went home. The bible is the sword of the spirit and who knows what affect these scriptures will have on some of them.
Anyway, all the best to you Matt
TE
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers
by VM44 inthe following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.
all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.
ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.
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Truthexplorer
Hi Podobear,
I sent you a rather long pm.
TE
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers
by VM44 inthe following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.
all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.
ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.
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Truthexplorer
Hi PB
I had meant to send a post on the other thread, but was drawn to some of the interesting points you raised in this thread. Just to say, David Gibson was quite a character. It was nice that he comforted you at a difficult time. Overall I liked the guy (though at times I felt that he could blow hot and cold). I really liked Sylvia. She was an easy going woman and always enjoyed freindly conversations with her at the hall I attended some 18 years ago.
With regard to the points you made as highlightd below:
I have already disabused myself of the tortuous and speculative teaching by the JW's surrounding John 10:16. The "other sheep" are patently (to me) the Gentiles who began to enter the Christian congregation with Cornelius.
I agree with you entirely on this point. I first discovered this understanding as I was reading thru Perimenos site under the title - John 10:16 who are the 'other sheep'? I was astounded at what I was reading and could not beleive that it was so clearly obvious as to what Jesus meant. Like all scripture, reading it in context makes so much sense. This is just another scripture that the society has twisted to elevate the anointed and particularly the FDS.
However, come the day, whenever that may be.. There will be a "New Heaven and a NEW EARTH".. I cannot abandon the NOT-unique teaching by the JW's that there will be a restoration of all things on this Earth too.. a reversal in every sense of the sin brought on us in Eden. When that time comes (and when is very much pivotal to this discussion).. the one way ticket for all Christians as you put it.. will cease. So, I cannot agree. Not ALL Christians will share and rule with Christ in heaven. There is a job to do! The JW's have an EXCEPTIONAL explanation of the "Kingdom" arrangement - and for me have explained far more than my years in the schisms of Christendom.
I again agree that only certain ones (the bride of Christ) will rule as Kings and priests with Christ over the earth. How this will be achieved, I am unsure about; ie after the marriage of the lamb, whether they rule from heaven itself or actually all (Jesus and the glorified ones/saints/elect) come back to the earth and then rule directly is something I have often pondered. This isnt so far fetched,- because after Jesus resurrection, he was a spirit, yet for some time he materialised as a human being appearing to many for a length of time John Ch 20 and 21. For me, this is probably the only way I can make sense of the Kingdom arrangement as it would tie in with Mat 24:30 -'they will see the son of man coming on the clouds of the sky with great glory'. Also in 1 Cor 6:2 It mentions how the holy ones/elect will judge the world. This would also fit in nicely with Jesus thousand year reign after which he hands back the kingdom to YHWH, at which point he and his bride will then ascend to heaven forever.
Whatever happens, I thoroughly beleive (just as you have stated) in the basic explanation of the kingdom arrangement as described by the society. Although, I disagree with them on placing dates such as 1914; and am unsure if 144000 is the actual number of the elect or if this number is simply figurative (for me this is what I consider one of those grey areas and therefore avoid being dogmatic about it).
My JW theology is rusty now.. but I have always understood, that the Bible is written SPECIFICALLY to those who have been called to be with Christ. By rote and adoption those who feel they will share in the NEW EARTH come under the HEAVENLY Kingdom arrangement.
I was a little bit unsure if I caught your drift here; but the point you made regarding those who feel they will share in the NEW EARTH reminded me of an incredble scripture I came across as I was doing my daily bible reading recently. It was Philippians 3:14 (KJV) notice how Paul mentions that [he] presses to the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus; yet in vs 15, he states-therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this in mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.
Your statement that I underlined was the very thought that crossed my mind when I read this particular scripture. I highlighted it in my bible at the time when I read it as it had a profound affect on me. I truly beleive the holy spirit guides people (if they allow it to do so) and they then know in their own hearts what they feel is their destination. I personally feel that my hope is to reside here on earth; I have always felt that way. I have never had that feeling for the heavenly hope.
Though I still continue associating with the witnesses. I have resolved to allow the holy spirit to guide me in my thinking and in what I do each day. I tell my wife this all the time, particularly whenever we discuss certain scriptures; and I have been feeling more fulfiled because of this. It may be that it will get me into trouble with the BOE at my Kingdom Hall some day; but I am willing to do what I beleive to be right and to put my trust in God (and not fear man).
Most Kingdoms have a parliament of elected representatives and constituencies consisting of sectors of their population. I have always viewed the Universe as being one massive Constituency with Jesus as the governmental head with his elected representatives. Maybe, says he (the dreamer) the rest of the Universe is populated with races and beings already enjoying the benefits of that Kingdom rule. Maybe soon, it is our turn for a cleansing and a New World Order. That expression seems to be on the lips of many.
I like the way you put this. It is quite possible..who can say; also why not..It is a big universe out there.
This has been a very interesting post by the way.
PS I also beleive that Jesus is mediator to ALL christians regardless of the heavenly or earthly hope. I once discussed my view with an elder as I couldnt understand how it didnt apply to the majority of christians, but he told me to wait on the society, as who knows 'new light may one day be revealed'!.
Thanks
TE
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WT SOCIETY IS WRONG ON BLOOD
by Vinny instill not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?.
still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?
still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?
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Truthexplorer
I havent read this thread all the way thru, so I apologise for that, but I feel very strongly about the blood issue after having gone thru a personal experience with my own child.
I currently attend meetings, and try my best to earnestly follow what is clearly defined in the bible, and not mens ambiguous interpretations. You are absolutely correct in pointing out that Jesus said 'I want mercy and not sacrifice'. I have made it crystal clear to my wife that I will avoid blood unless it is a life threatening situation (which is the common sense position we both took when our child was having a serious operation some years ago; thank God for the award of court legislation in this country!!). In fact I told my wife that I will be writing up my own version of a blood card soon.
The issue of blood should be a matter of an individuals personal conscience, without the cruel man made threat of being disfellowshipped hanging over them. Yes there are blood substitutes such as blood volume expanders and cell saver machines etc..which I absolutely agree should be tried first and foremost. I have no issue with that. But to then tie surgeons hands behind their backs by refusing blood completetly (even as a last resort is absolute madness!!)- it is brainwashing gone wrong.
To simply stand by and watch a loved one die when there is that slight chance that their life could be saved by a blood transfusion (but only to be taken as a last resort when everything else has been tried first) is unbeleivable. I love YHWH and will always do what I believe to be right and common sense is one of them, particularly where scriptural teachings arent absolutely clear.
If there are any sisters (in particular) lurking on this site. I urge you to make your own decisions as to what your conscience is telling you to do, particularly when facing situations such as child birth. Use your common sense (ie to only accept a transfusion as a very very last resort). Speak to your surgeon beforehand about it and explain very clearly that you would rather avoid blood if at all possible, but will only accept a transfusion if there is a serious threat to your life. Most of the time, blood isn't needed anyway.
The blood policy has been changed over the years by the society and I suggest you read the AJWRB site to get a better understanding of the issue. This incredible man made policy will not affect your relationship with God; why, because Jehovah (YHWH) is full of grace and mercy and knows your heart.
Of course, I mentioned that such decisions should be a matter for a persons own conscience and if a person chooses to avoid blood completetly, I respect what that person chooses to do. All I would urge is that you think it through carefully. Read what medical proffessionals also have to say on the subject and then make an informed decision. I have done this and have experienced first hand what it is like to be faced with such a situation, long before I did any serious reading into it. It was only from that experience that I began to question the societies policy on blood and gradually made a clear decision with regard to what I would do if facing such an issue in future. I dont feel my relationship with YHWH is any less strong, in fact I have never felt stronger in my relationship toward God.
Thanks for reading this post.
TE
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
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Truthexplorer
Paulapollos
Did you know David and Sylvia Gibson. It has been years since I visited Bethel and wondered wher they are now. Also Carl Snaith - does he ring a bell?
podobear
'Indeed, whether Christ calls his own to serve at his side or to enjoy eternal (but not immortal) life on Earth in flesh and blood: Should not ALL partake of his flesh and blood as part of a GLOBAL Kingdom Arrangement. Actually, the way JW's explain things supports that very idea: One hope, just different destinies. Only those who are not worthy, Paul says, should not partake. What exactly does that mean, then?'
If you read 1 Cor chapter 11 from verse 17 onwards, you will find your answer (look at the KJV or NIV). The thing that is so strikingly obvious is that there appeared to be individuals who were partaking of the Lords evening meal disrepectfully; ie they were thinking more about their own stomachs and even perhaps getting intoxicated vs 21. Effectively, some were making a mockery of the Lords evening meal and were bringing judgement on themselves. I have read this portion of scripture many times and looking at it in its context would explain what Paul was simply trying to convey....to remind Christians that it should be a respecful holy occasion and that they should be partaking in an honorable and respectful way. Hope this has been helpful.
TE