Posts by Truthexplorer

37

PARADISE EARTH OR HEAVEN? OR BOTH?

by exjw2814 in

the jw's teach about the hope we have for living on a paradise earth.

is that what jesus taught when he came to the earth ?

the last time i checked he was referring to heaven, not earth.

Truthexplorer

Sorry, my cutting and pasting skills are on the decline

1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

TE

37

PARADISE EARTH OR HEAVEN? OR BOTH?

by exjw2814 in

the jw's teach about the hope we have for living on a paradise earth.

is that what jesus taught when he came to the earth ?

the last time i checked he was referring to heaven, not earth.

Truthexplorer

After Jesus ressurection certain ones would be chosen / sealed by God to go to heaven (144000 faithful servants-Rev 7:4). The majority of these ones are a sleep in death at the present time until the marriage of the lamb-soon to take place.

1 Thes 4:13-18- Moreover, brothers, we do not want YOU to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that YOU may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. 14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.

The choosing of these ones has been ongoing down through the centuries from the millions of other Christians during that time right up to the present. That is why Jesus could say to his disciples luke 16:16.

These tried and tested faithful ones will rule as Kings and priests over the earth Rev 5:10

They are the ones who go to heaven to be with Christ for such a purpose.

The earth will one day be filled with meek people. Matt 5:5

That is why Jesus correctly said the following in his sermon on the mount, when speaking about those who will be going to heaven and those who would reside on earth. Though not fully grasped at the time, It is only through spiritual insight that people could fully understand the meaning of his speech. Instead of it being contadictory, it makes absolute sense in light of the inspired writings that had come about since then.

Matt 5:1

3
“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.
4
“Happy are those who mourn, since they will be comforted.
5
“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
6
“Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled.
7
“Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.
8
“Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.
9
“Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.’10
“Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.
11
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. 12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.When he saw the crowds he went up into the mountain; and after he sat down his disciples came to him; 2 and he opened his mouth and began teaching them, saying:

TE

11

Christs invisible Presence! When would it begin?

by wannabe in

in his fathers eyes he was already a ruling king.

17"as it is written: "i have made you a father of many nations.

god exalted him to the highest place.

Truthexplorer

Hi Wannabe,

I will print off (tomorrow) what you have written and will have a proper read. It certainly looks like a very interesting and informative read.

TE

20

Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?

by Truthexplorer in

frankly, i am a little bit confused by this teaching.

well when i read 1 thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.. paul wrote -.

moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope.

Truthexplorer

It's not possible any are in heaven at this time, due to the fact that the final sealing of the heavenly calling isn't completed as yet. Read Revelation 7:1-4 where it tells us four Angels are holding back the four winds of destruction until the final sealing of the heavenly calling is completed. Those four Angels are still holding tight those four winds. All of the heavenly calling had to be all together at the same time. None would begin to reign as king priests unless they were all together at the same time.

You are correct Wannabe,

It simply doesnt make sense that most of the anointed are now in heaven, especially, as you have rightly pointed out - before the final sealing has been completed!

It would seem incredible (as the society claim) that most of the anointed are already in heaven alongside Christ, before the marriage of the lamb?

TE

12

Governing Body/FDS Question

by Inkie in

jw
friends

jw's say that all the anointed are members of, or make up, the faith and discreet slave ("fds").

and they say that from among them a little group form the governing body.

can you help out here in a bit of understanding?

Truthexplorer

Also worth a read is this essay about the 'three parables with one meaning'.

http://perimeno.ca/Three_Parables.htm

12

Governing Body/FDS Question

by Inkie in

jw
friends

jw's say that all the anointed are members of, or make up, the faith and discreet slave ("fds").

and they say that from among them a little group form the governing body.

can you help out here in a bit of understanding?

Truthexplorer

Hi Inkie,

This is an extract of an article from the following link

http://perimeno.ca/God's_Organization.htm

[Many within God's organization are convinced that we need a governing body to organize the preaching work and to provide us with all the many publications, our spiritual food "at the proper time." It is Jehovah's arrangement they feel. But as has already been mentioned, there was no governing body in the first century, neither was there any need for one. The holy spirit, which Jesus had promised as a helper, was very active at that time. (John 14:26) It served as a teacher and helper, enabling the disciples to remember and understand the things they were learning, even the deeper things of God. (1 Cor. 2:10-13) It directed the preaching work, even assigning certain ones their territory. (Acts 13:2-4; 16:6;0) It appointed elders, and also gave the members in the congregations different gifts, so that no one was expected to do the same, or as much, as anyone else; nor was anyone's work compared to someone else's work, thus avoiding any rivalry or reason for boasting. Everyone did just as the spirit enabled them to do. And since a fruitage of the spirit is joy, the brothers experienced much joy in worshiping Jehovah. In fact, the Scriptures have much to say about the joy of all the disciples. Together the congregations functioned as one body, under the same head, Christ Jesus. — 1 Cor. 12:12-18.]

It is well worth a read as it will help you put the whole concept of the GB/FDS into perspective.

TE

20

Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?

by Truthexplorer in

frankly, i am a little bit confused by this teaching.

well when i read 1 thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.. paul wrote -.

moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope.

Truthexplorer

This is from the March15th 2005 WT

When does the heavenly resurrection take place? “During [Christ’s] presence,” answers 1 Corinthians 15:23. World events since 1914 clearly show that both Christ’s presence and “the conclusion of the system of things” began in that year. (Matthew 24:3-7) So there is reason to conclude that the resurrection of faithful Christians to heaven has already begun, though, of course, unseen by humans. That would mean that the apostles and the early Christians have been raised to heavenly life. What about Christians living now who have the sure, God-given hope of ruling with Christ in heaven? They are raised “in the twinkling of an eye,” or immediately after they die. (1 Corinthians 15:52) Since the resurrection of this small group of 144,000 precedes that of the large number who will be resurrected to life on earth, it is called “the earlier resurrection” and “the first resurrection.”—Philippians 3:11; Revelation 20:6.

So, let me get this right, if the society are saying that the apostles and other early anointed ones ressurrection [to heavenly life] has already begun! how will those who are living, 'together with them', be caught away in the clouds to be with the Lord?

Surely what the scripture is saying is that the anointed who have died will take part in the first ressurrection (ie all at the same time) when Jesus calls them with an archangels voice; and then at that time the anointed who are living 'will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18

This would then make sense of the scripture at Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory,because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself.

The scriptures appear to point to a specific moment in time (when Jesus calls them with an archangels voice); that the 1st ressurrection happens, and caught up together with those of the anointed still living; whence the marriage of the lamb.

Yet we read in the WT that the 1st ressurrection has been phased in over the past 100 years?

Boy, am I confused?

TE

14

Local needs after d/f or reproof

by jambon1 in

this may be a question for ex-elders.

is it always the case that a talk will be given after a d/f or reproof relating to the persons 'sin'?

after these announcements in our hall we always seemed to have a talk/local needs, which practically told you what the person had done.

Truthexplorer

After I was reproved, A local needs (about two weeks later) was given. It described virtually everything I done without giving my name. Everyone knew the talk was about me. I went home that night and threw my bag at the couch out of disgust at what had just happened that night at the hall. The society should bring out an article on the meaning of the word confidentiality and sort themselves and the elder bodies out!

During the many years I faded away, I felt bitter about the whole way it was handled. It did not even qualify for a public reproof as I wasnt practicing this particular sin, (1Tim 5:20- 20 Reprove before all onlookers persons who practice sin, that the rest also may have fear); it was a one off sin which I was clearly repentant about, particularly as I voluntarily chose to seek help and speak to the elders about my wrong doing.

The so called self proclaimed slave should start reading their bibles and handle things correctly!

TE

20

Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?

by Truthexplorer in

frankly, i am a little bit confused by this teaching.

well when i read 1 thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.. paul wrote -.

moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope.

Truthexplorer

Frankly, I am a little bit confused by this teaching. Why? Well when I read 1 Thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.

Paul wrote -

Moreover, brothers, we do not want YOU to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that YOU may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. 14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.

It appears to be saying that this would all happen at the same time. This would make sense as they are the bride of Christ which one then initiate the 1000 year rulership of Christ.

Why would some start to rule as Kings ahead of time?

http://perimeno.ca/Letters_0110_midst_of_enemies.htm

TE

64

Hello..this is my story..

by Lozhasleft in

jw
friends

i'm pleased to have found this site...i've browsed a little ...read quite a lot and gasped at some stories, giggled at the one liners and nodded in recognition of others' strong opinions and can relate to a great deal.. i'll try and keep my intro as brief as possible for anyone kind enough to listen.. i got involved with the witnesses in the late 70's in the uk.

i was in my early 20s and had had a love and fascination for the bible since my difficult childhood.

i soon brought my life into 'line' although it took a long time for me to pack up the smoking which didnt go down well in those days when 6 months of study should have been enough and if you hadnt cracked it then it was suggested that you were some kind of loser.... i reared my 4 children in the 'truth' as well as i could but i cant claim that we were a 'strong' family in their terms...just muddled along really..my husband at the time was a very difficult and abusive man and home life wasnt easy for any of us with his anger, jealousy and violence.

Truthexplorer

Hi Lozhasleft,

I sent you a PM

TE