Posts by Truthexplorer

6

Anyone got pictures of the interior of Bethel NY

by Truthexplorer in

jw
friends

just wondered what bethel in ny looks like from the inside.

i would like to get a real sense of what the corridors of bethel looks like now or in the past.

i have seen the odd pic here or there, but would like to see more.

New Watchtower Propaganda and hate speech destroying families (Feb 2016 WT)

by Daniel1555 in

the following is a paragraph from the new february study watchtower article "learn from jehovah's loyal servants.".

7 a conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped.

for example, a sister named anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother.

FOR ALL THOSE LURKING AND INDEED TO THOSE WHO ACTUALLY WROTE THIS WT ARTICLE. HERE IS AN EXTRACT FROM 'CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE' A BOOK WRITTEN BY EX GOVERNING BODY MEMBER RAY FRANZ ON, THIS VERY PARTICULAR ISSUE. (Note: I underlined the bit about the mother)

'In many cases it was not some unkind treatment they themselves

experienced that disturbed them; it was seeing such treatment

meted out to others, seeing people suffer because of the rigidity,

narrow-mindedness, even arrogance of men in charge, elders and

others, or recognizing the hurtful effects of certain edicts of the

organization that did not rest on a solid Scriptural foundation.

Rather than disgruntled, vindictive complainers, they have simply

pleaded for greater compassion, a closer adherence to the example

of God’s own Son, the Master of the Christian household of faith.

This feeling for others is, I believe, a decisive factor as to the

genuineness of motive. Similarly, a concern for truth, a concern not

to be guilty of misrepresenting God’s own Word, a concern not

to be hypocritical in appearing to believe what they do not believe,

support what they cannot conscientiously support, condemn what

they cannot see that Scripture itself condemns—such concern is, I

think, also determinative as to genuineness of motive of any taking

such a stand. I know many persons who clearly evidence such concern,

yet who are labeled as “apostates,” “antichrists,” “instruments

of Satan.” In case after case after case, the sole basis for such con

38 CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

demnation is that they could not honestly agree with all the

organization’s teachings or policies.

I feel an obligation toward such persons. In virtually every

instance, a small group of three to five men (a “judicial committee”)

met with them in secret meetings, where those who came as witnesses

could only give their testimony but not stay to witness the discussion.

Later a brief disfellowshiping announcement was read to the

congregation that presented none of the testimony and none of the

evidence in support of the disfellowshiping action. After the reading

of that announcement no Witness was supposed to talk with the

persons disfellowshiped, thereby shutting down any possibility of

their expressing themselves by way of an explanation to friends and

associates. For them to have done so before the disfellowshiping

would have been counted as ‘proselytizing,’ ‘undermining the unity

of the congregation,’ ‘sowing dissension,’ ‘forming a sect.’ For anyone

to talk to them afterward would jeopardize that person’s own

standing, make him liable for similar disfellowshipment.

An effective “quarantining” is thus accomplished; a “lid” is placed

on any discussion of the matter. The record of the disfellowshiping

hearing and any claimed evidence now resides in one of the many

voluminous files at the Brooklyn Service Department (or the files of

a Branch Office), stamped “Do Not Destroy.” This file containing the

charges made against them, like their hearing, is also secret, not subject

to review.

The Scriptures tell us that, “A true companion is loving all the

time, and is a brother that is born for when there is distress.”33 I once

thought I had many, many such genuine friends. But when the crisis

reached a decisive point I found I had only a few. Still, I count

those few precious, whether they said little or much on my behalf.

Because of past prominence, people inquire about me. However,

almost no one ever inquires about the others who lack such prominence,

although they have suffered through the same experience

with essentially the same costs and agonies.

What must it mean to a mother, who has seen a baby daughter

come forth from her own body, has nursed that baby, cared for it

through illness, has trained the young girl through the formative years

of life, living her problems with her, feeling her disappointments and

sadnesses as if they were her own, shedding tears along with her

tears—what must it mean to that mother to have her daughter, now

33 Proverbs 17:17.

Credentials and Cause 39

an adult, suddenly reject her, and do so simply because her mother

sought to be true to her conscience and to God?

What must it do to a father or mother to see a son or daughter

marry and be told, for the same reason, that ‘it would be best if they

did not appear at the wedding,’ or know that a daughter has given birth

to a child and be told that they should not come to see their grandchild?

This is not imagination. Exactly those things are happening to

many parents who have been associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Consider here just one example, from a mother in Pennsylvania

who writes:

I have children in the organization, married, who at the time of my

disassociation even offered for me to come to their home, for a rest,

and their opinion of me as a person was not altered. When the

information came through later [in the September 15, 1981, Watchtower

which set forth detailed instructions as to association with any

who thus disassociated themselves] I’ve been shunned by them ever

since and they will not talk to me on the phone or have contact with

me. I’ve got to do something about it but I don’t know what. I make

no move lest it be a wrong move and alienate them further. I don’t

phone them for fear they’ll get an unlisted number, and I don’t write,

as I said, for fear of saying anything they might construe as offensive.

I’ve been hospitalized during this time for emotional exhaustion and

I suffered an additional crisis all within a short time of each event

which proved, unfortunately, overwhelming.

Perhaps you share this experience. I do not know how I am going

to handle the loss of my children (and future grandchildren). The loss

is monumental.

If my past prominence could now contribute in some way to the

conscientious stand of such persons being considered with a more

open mind and could aid others to revise their attitude toward persons

of this kind, I feel that such prominence would thereby have

served perhaps the only useful purpose it ever had.

I think here of Paul’s words when he says:

What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain in your

conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again,

but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you

can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in

what is in the heart.

Make room for us in your hearts. We have wronged no one, we

have corrupted no one, we have exploited no one. I do not say this to

condemn you; I have said before that you have such a place in our

40 CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

hearts that we would live or die with you.34

If the information presented in this book could help toward one such

mother being viewed by her children, not with shame, but with pride for

staying by her conscience, all the effort involved would be worth it.

That is basically why this book will present things that I saw, heard

and experienced during my nine years on the Governing Body of

Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is evidently necessary in order to get at the root

of what is a heartbreaking problem for many, on both sides of the issue.'

6

Anyone got pictures of the interior of Bethel NY

by Truthexplorer in

jw
friends

just wondered what bethel in ny looks like from the inside.

i would like to get a real sense of what the corridors of bethel looks like now or in the past.

i have seen the odd pic here or there, but would like to see more.

Truthexplorer

Just wondered what Bethel in NY looks like from the inside. I would like to get a real sense of what the corridors of bethel looks like now or in the past. I have seen the odd PIC here or there, but would like to see more. If you have any pics to share of the tower, that would be great.

105

New Watchtower Propaganda and hate speech destroying families (Feb 2016 WT)

by Daniel1555 in

the following is a paragraph from the new february study watchtower article "learn from jehovah's loyal servants.".

7 a conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped.

for example, a sister named anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother.

Truthexplorer

It's inredible, they bring out in all their magazines how people have been treated by relatives because they came into the truth. How he or she were treated by family or others within their community for standing up tothe truth (aka WT version of truth )and how bad all of that was. They provide story after story in the pages of their propoganda. Yet if a person questions teachings of the WT or chooses to simply join or assoiate with another Christian faith group, they will be disfellowshipped and shunned. If a person chooses to disassociate, yet absolutely done nothing else wrong also is shunned. Look in the mirror WT. Thank God my Catholic relatives don't have your cruel policy. You are a cruel organisation THAT DOES split up families!!!!!

12

Annual Meeting 2015 Rant

by freemindfade in

well i didn't watch all of it, but i did watch a good deal.

it reminded me of the times i actually physically attended in the past.

lets start with am3.

Truthexplorer

Its quite symbolic watching the AM. The once highly revered mysterious men from behind the curtain now standing in front of the curtain!!

10

Please help me understand 1919 they were 100 percent out of babylon the great

by poopie in

jw
friends

acording to lett at annual meeting.

Truthexplorer

Explain 1919? Sure...It's what I would use as an example when defining the word 'DELUSION'!

61

I'm Catholic and madly in love with a Jehovah Witness...

by Luge62 in

jw
friends

we are madly in love with each other and she is in the process of being divorced.

let me make one thing clear i'm not the reason for the divorce.

she attempted to reconcile with him but to no avail.

Truthexplorer

Hi Luge, I was Catholic before joining this high control religion. So, I can see things from your perspective. Best thing to do is just be open and honest with each other. Tell her that your lives need to be balanced. things might be rough for a while but eventually things will settle back down again for her. As long as you are both balanced in your marriage, and allow her to do her thing, and you yours, things will be fine. She will go to her meetings (there are many women attending who are married to unbeliving marriage mates btw); but that she also respects you and your interests too, within reason. The negative stuff mentioned so far, sadly CAN be the case. It depends on the elders in her hall. The elders MAY play things down and let sleeping dogs lie, but there most definately wont be a white wedding at the Kingdom Hall for sure! The elders follow a book of rules and policies laid down by 7 dudes in New York. These men are called by a business corporation name ' the Governing body' would you believe! It might be worth downloading their book of rules to see how they handle matters. Its called 'Shepherd the flock of God'. Information is power as they say. You very obviously love her. My advice for you is to have good honest open communication coupled with deep respect for each other as the way forward. I wish you and your girlfriend the very best. TE

10

How would you/did you categorize the elders in YOUR hall!

by Truthexplorer in

i would consider some of the elders in my hall genuine shepherds ( though g men) there are a couple others i would consider robotic/wooden (boring) but ok. then of course there is the complete knob (pharisee wannabe) who grinds my wife and i's gears.

every hall seems to have one!!!

so how do/did you view the elders in your hall?

Truthexplorer

VI, Kaik, Dunedin and TR. The experiences and points you made are really interesting. The point about older kindlier more compassionate elders having to make way for younger company men who follow the Talmud to the letter. Also TR, the point you made about the weak being hounded out was really interesting. I personally experienced this in my old hall. Having tried to make the effort to return after a long fade, the elders purposely avoided me, not allowing me to answer or go out in field service for over a year. It was plainly obvious my face no longer fitted in that hall and they wanted me out. It was a very unloving hall led by a control freak. This clearly is a tactic some elder bodies use to squeeze out the ones they simply don't like; to keep their precious clique like halls Talmudically perfectly clean.

10

How would you/did you categorize the elders in YOUR hall!

by Truthexplorer in

i would consider some of the elders in my hall genuine shepherds ( though g men) there are a couple others i would consider robotic/wooden (boring) but ok. then of course there is the complete knob (pharisee wannabe) who grinds my wife and i's gears.

every hall seems to have one!!!

so how do/did you view the elders in your hall?

Truthexplorer

I would consider some of the elders in my hall genuine Shepherds ( though G men) There are a couple others I would consider robotic/wooden (boring) but OK. Then of course there is the complete knob (Pharisee wannabe) who grinds my wife and I's gears. Every hall seems to have one!!! So how do/did you view the elders in Your hall?

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

Truthexplorer

yes your gravatar Viviane. Just had to say that's a lovely picture of you.....