Maybe a stint on the Gerry Springer show would draw them out of their shell abit; and show us their human side
Truthexplorer
JoinedPosts by Truthexplorer
-
9
Have you noticed ? the GB's purposeful Tone while speaking??
by freewilly01 inafter being absent for years from the borgorg i really noticed the purposeful fake tone of the voices of the gb.
i was just surfing cults and cult leaders and found an interesting link with the gb and cult leaders...... in the satirist:.
the article was:.
-
-
-
25
Jehovah's "name" real or not?
by highdose inis the name jehovah as gods name without dispute?
has the wtbs ever addmitted any where that gods name is not actauly known?.
need references for a project of mine please!.
-
-
Truthexplorer
Hi - Highdose
They have admitted that the name Jehovah is not the most accurate but continue to use this name because of peoples familiarity with it through out the centuries. In fact they admit that Yahweh is probably more accurate than Jehovah.
See 'The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures' (1985 edition) pages 10-12.
TE
-
52
THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!
by Hobo Ken inthis is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.
podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.
also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .
-
-
Truthexplorer
Hi Hobo ken (Matt)
I listened to all your podcasts (listened to podcast 12 last night) and found them all intriuging. Though, for me, the jury is still out as to the rights and wrongs of recording each of the meetings held, I did however find it fascinating to say the least as to how things progressed. Whats more, given the fact that the GB themselves 'secretly' recorded phone conversations during the 'apostasy' period in 1981 brings things into perspectivefor me.
At one point, you were asked if you beleived that Jehovah is using the organisation on earth today and if you beleived the FDS were Gods sole channel of communication; from what I remember, you agreed with them and I was hoping you would say that you beleive that the work of preaching here on earth today is organised, but in the sense that it is Jesus who is the head of the Christian congregation and that it is the holy spirit which is directly guiding Christians, both on an individual and Congregational level to preach the good news of the kingdom throughout the world (Rev 1:17). I would have also loved it if you pointed out to them that for most of the book of Acts, it is littered with proof that the holy spirit did exactly this in the first century. That would have made them think a bit. I realise though that this is easier said than done; and again you handled yourself remarkably well, particularly in such a difficult situation.
Ian Shanks sounded like he was going for the jugular at times, as if he was fed up with you for skirting round things. He came across as if he just wanted you to say things contrary to the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and simply to get rid of you. Yet understandably, what else could you do. If it was me, I would have probably done the same given similiar circumstances. Being shunned by family and friends is no small thing.
I liked the way you asked them to read 1 Cor 4:1-5 as you were leaving. Hopefully they will have done this and reflected on these scriptures when they went home. The bible is the sword of the spirit and who knows what affect these scriptures will have on some of them.
Anyway, all the best to you Matt
TE
-
28
Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers
by VM44 inthe following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.
all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.
ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.
-
-
Truthexplorer
Hi Podobear,
I sent you a rather long pm.
TE
-
28
Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers
by VM44 inthe following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.
all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.
ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.
-
-
Truthexplorer
Hi PB
I had meant to send a post on the other thread, but was drawn to some of the interesting points you raised in this thread. Just to say, David Gibson was quite a character. It was nice that he comforted you at a difficult time. Overall I liked the guy (though at times I felt that he could blow hot and cold). I really liked Sylvia. She was an easy going woman and always enjoyed freindly conversations with her at the hall I attended some 18 years ago.
With regard to the points you made as highlightd below:
I have already disabused myself of the tortuous and speculative teaching by the JW's surrounding John 10:16. The "other sheep" are patently (to me) the Gentiles who began to enter the Christian congregation with Cornelius.
I agree with you entirely on this point. I first discovered this understanding as I was reading thru Perimenos site under the title - John 10:16 who are the 'other sheep'? I was astounded at what I was reading and could not beleive that it was so clearly obvious as to what Jesus meant. Like all scripture, reading it in context makes so much sense. This is just another scripture that the society has twisted to elevate the anointed and particularly the FDS.
However, come the day, whenever that may be.. There will be a "New Heaven and a NEW EARTH".. I cannot abandon the NOT-unique teaching by the JW's that there will be a restoration of all things on this Earth too.. a reversal in every sense of the sin brought on us in Eden. When that time comes (and when is very much pivotal to this discussion).. the one way ticket for all Christians as you put it.. will cease. So, I cannot agree. Not ALL Christians will share and rule with Christ in heaven. There is a job to do! The JW's have an EXCEPTIONAL explanation of the "Kingdom" arrangement - and for me have explained far more than my years in the schisms of Christendom.
I again agree that only certain ones (the bride of Christ) will rule as Kings and priests with Christ over the earth. How this will be achieved, I am unsure about; ie after the marriage of the lamb, whether they rule from heaven itself or actually all (Jesus and the glorified ones/saints/elect) come back to the earth and then rule directly is something I have often pondered. This isnt so far fetched,- because after Jesus resurrection, he was a spirit, yet for some time he materialised as a human being appearing to many for a length of time John Ch 20 and 21. For me, this is probably the only way I can make sense of the Kingdom arrangement as it would tie in with Mat 24:30 -'they will see the son of man coming on the clouds of the sky with great glory'. Also in 1 Cor 6:2 It mentions how the holy ones/elect will judge the world. This would also fit in nicely with Jesus thousand year reign after which he hands back the kingdom to YHWH, at which point he and his bride will then ascend to heaven forever.
Whatever happens, I thoroughly beleive (just as you have stated) in the basic explanation of the kingdom arrangement as described by the society. Although, I disagree with them on placing dates such as 1914; and am unsure if 144000 is the actual number of the elect or if this number is simply figurative (for me this is what I consider one of those grey areas and therefore avoid being dogmatic about it).
My JW theology is rusty now.. but I have always understood, that the Bible is written SPECIFICALLY to those who have been called to be with Christ. By rote and adoption those who feel they will share in the NEW EARTH come under the HEAVENLY Kingdom arrangement.
I was a little bit unsure if I caught your drift here; but the point you made regarding those who feel they will share in the NEW EARTH reminded me of an incredble scripture I came across as I was doing my daily bible reading recently. It was Philippians 3:14 (KJV) notice how Paul mentions that [he] presses to the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus; yet in vs 15, he states-therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this in mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.
Your statement that I underlined was the very thought that crossed my mind when I read this particular scripture. I highlighted it in my bible at the time when I read it as it had a profound affect on me. I truly beleive the holy spirit guides people (if they allow it to do so) and they then know in their own hearts what they feel is their destination. I personally feel that my hope is to reside here on earth; I have always felt that way. I have never had that feeling for the heavenly hope.
Though I still continue associating with the witnesses. I have resolved to allow the holy spirit to guide me in my thinking and in what I do each day. I tell my wife this all the time, particularly whenever we discuss certain scriptures; and I have been feeling more fulfiled because of this. It may be that it will get me into trouble with the BOE at my Kingdom Hall some day; but I am willing to do what I beleive to be right and to put my trust in God (and not fear man).
Most Kingdoms have a parliament of elected representatives and constituencies consisting of sectors of their population. I have always viewed the Universe as being one massive Constituency with Jesus as the governmental head with his elected representatives. Maybe, says he (the dreamer) the rest of the Universe is populated with races and beings already enjoying the benefits of that Kingdom rule. Maybe soon, it is our turn for a cleansing and a New World Order. That expression seems to be on the lips of many.
I like the way you put this. It is quite possible..who can say; also why not..It is a big universe out there.
This has been a very interesting post by the way.
PS I also beleive that Jesus is mediator to ALL christians regardless of the heavenly or earthly hope. I once discussed my view with an elder as I couldnt understand how it didnt apply to the majority of christians, but he told me to wait on the society, as who knows 'new light may one day be revealed'!.
Thanks
TE
-
67
WT SOCIETY IS WRONG ON BLOOD
by Vinny instill not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?.
still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?
still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?
-
-
Truthexplorer
I havent read this thread all the way thru, so I apologise for that, but I feel very strongly about the blood issue after having gone thru a personal experience with my own child.
I currently attend meetings, and try my best to earnestly follow what is clearly defined in the bible, and not mens ambiguous interpretations. You are absolutely correct in pointing out that Jesus said 'I want mercy and not sacrifice'. I have made it crystal clear to my wife that I will avoid blood unless it is a life threatening situation (which is the common sense position we both took when our child was having a serious operation some years ago; thank God for the award of court legislation in this country!!). In fact I told my wife that I will be writing up my own version of a blood card soon.
The issue of blood should be a matter of an individuals personal conscience, without the cruel man made threat of being disfellowshipped hanging over them. Yes there are blood substitutes such as blood volume expanders and cell saver machines etc..which I absolutely agree should be tried first and foremost. I have no issue with that. But to then tie surgeons hands behind their backs by refusing blood completetly (even as a last resort is absolute madness!!)- it is brainwashing gone wrong.
To simply stand by and watch a loved one die when there is that slight chance that their life could be saved by a blood transfusion (but only to be taken as a last resort when everything else has been tried first) is unbeleivable. I love YHWH and will always do what I believe to be right and common sense is one of them, particularly where scriptural teachings arent absolutely clear.
If there are any sisters (in particular) lurking on this site. I urge you to make your own decisions as to what your conscience is telling you to do, particularly when facing situations such as child birth. Use your common sense (ie to only accept a transfusion as a very very last resort). Speak to your surgeon beforehand about it and explain very clearly that you would rather avoid blood if at all possible, but will only accept a transfusion if there is a serious threat to your life. Most of the time, blood isn't needed anyway.
The blood policy has been changed over the years by the society and I suggest you read the AJWRB site to get a better understanding of the issue. This incredible man made policy will not affect your relationship with God; why, because Jehovah (YHWH) is full of grace and mercy and knows your heart.
Of course, I mentioned that such decisions should be a matter for a persons own conscience and if a person chooses to avoid blood completetly, I respect what that person chooses to do. All I would urge is that you think it through carefully. Read what medical proffessionals also have to say on the subject and then make an informed decision. I have done this and have experienced first hand what it is like to be faced with such a situation, long before I did any serious reading into it. It was only from that experience that I began to question the societies policy on blood and gradually made a clear decision with regard to what I would do if facing such an issue in future. I dont feel my relationship with YHWH is any less strong, in fact I have never felt stronger in my relationship toward God.
Thanks for reading this post.
TE
-
310
Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
-
-
Truthexplorer
Paulapollos
Did you know David and Sylvia Gibson. It has been years since I visited Bethel and wondered wher they are now. Also Carl Snaith - does he ring a bell?
podobear
'Indeed, whether Christ calls his own to serve at his side or to enjoy eternal (but not immortal) life on Earth in flesh and blood: Should not ALL partake of his flesh and blood as part of a GLOBAL Kingdom Arrangement. Actually, the way JW's explain things supports that very idea: One hope, just different destinies. Only those who are not worthy, Paul says, should not partake. What exactly does that mean, then?'
If you read 1 Cor chapter 11 from verse 17 onwards, you will find your answer (look at the KJV or NIV). The thing that is so strikingly obvious is that there appeared to be individuals who were partaking of the Lords evening meal disrepectfully; ie they were thinking more about their own stomachs and even perhaps getting intoxicated vs 21. Effectively, some were making a mockery of the Lords evening meal and were bringing judgement on themselves. I have read this portion of scripture many times and looking at it in its context would explain what Paul was simply trying to convey....to remind Christians that it should be a respecful holy occasion and that they should be partaking in an honorable and respectful way. Hope this has been helpful.
TE
-
22
Out of Left Field...Strange things you were told by elders
by FollowerOfSet injust curious if the crazy was limited to my town or not.. i remember and elder, during a talk about everyone being resurrected that it included all the babies that had miscarried or were aborted, because the big j knew what their hearts were.
after the meeting, he was telling a couple of us how it also disturbed him that his wife would have to carry someone elses babies and he would be raising someone elses children.. another elder said that we would colonize other planets, and that since the bible never said the big j didn't make other inhabited worlds that there was a whole universe of planets to colonize after armageddon.. anyone else hear crazy crap like this?.
-
-
Truthexplorer
Elder to me after a meeting (I was studying at the time):
er eh well..we er eh you know dont eh tend to er grow beards in the the truth, so eh you know we try to discourage this..eh no offence..its just that we er want to display a clean image (chuckle chuckle/HEARTY LAUGH)... hope you er understand as some ..well you know... might be stumbled to see brothers eh well unshaved like.
Naive me thinking it was scriptural: oh sorry brother, I didnt realise it was wrong to have a beard. Yes, i'll get rid of it.... (which I promptly did )
-
20
Just read Crisis of Conscience - Malawi/Mexico double standard
by jambon1 inall i can say is - wow.
what a bunch of absolutely hypocritical, double tongued shithouses the governing body really are.. reading the letters to & from the different branches/governing body on 'alternative service' made me so angry.. an organisation that is utterly rotten from the top down.
these men have blood on their hands.. filth!.
-
-
Truthexplorer
I read C of C edition 3 some years back and just remember turning each page thinking...I knew it...I just knew it. The fact that they were prepared to overlook what the mexican brothers were doing and even encouraging it simply astonished me. Brooklyns biggest concern was $$$$$ and how to hang on to it.
Even the fact that the Brothers werent allowed to pray or sing at meetings as this could give them away as being a religion was unbeleivable. Absolutely shocking. Clearly $$$$$ before God in this situation.
Maybe you can highlight some more nuggets and jaw dropping moments from the book Jambon 1. It is good to be reminded.
TE
-
34
Elders who step down for little or no reason?
by Truthexplorer inwithin the past decade, two elders stepped down in my old congregation.
actually one was taken off for commiting adultery and therefore reproved, but the other one simply stepped down for no apparent reason.
also, in another congregation i used to attend for a short time, i was shocked to hear of another elder stepping down, again for no apparent reason.. i am wondering if there has been an increase in the number of elders stepping down for no obvious reason and to see if this is a worrying trend causing alarm for the society.. i am thinking the past 10 years, particularly with the internet being available to so many people around the world today; but have you experienced many elders stepping down in your congregation or past congregation?
-
-
Truthexplorer
Simon Morley,
you have a good point there, in that the R&F can be more biased toward certain elders. In my Cong, there is a central core of individulas who I tend to refer to as the 'holier than thou class'- ie the over x amount of hours and you are in club. They clamber and fuss around one particular elder who I have to say is a living miracle. I have probably spoken to the guy about 3 times in the past 8 years (and that is just to say hello whilst he briskly walks past me - a prime example of an outwardly loving Christian elder ). I cant help but admire his skills at body swerving people such as me, and yet draw so much admiration.
The 2 elders who stepped down in other halls were what I assumed as being steadfast, unshakable. So it was a shock that these two stepped down (within the last 2 years). One of them is married with no kids. The other is married with a late teenage son. So I was kind of mistified as to the reasons why. The Mrs usually finds out the goss quickly, but not this time .
TE