Posts by GLTirebiter

31

Are there any Watchtower prophesies that came true?

by TTWSYF in

i know that the failed predictions of amageddon for 1914, 1918, 1925, during wwii, and 1975 have been well documented here and other places, but are there any [documented] 'prophesies' that actually came true?.

dc.

GLTirebiter

@ Leolaia, can you tell us which publication and date that article came from?

Thanks!

77

Please Tell A Story ...

by snowbird in

jw
friends

in 13 words.. thanks.. syl.

GLTirebiter

"Surely, he'll change" -- he didn't.

"She'll never change" -- she did.

Their lawyers prospered.

9

What does Atheists, Agonostics and 99.97% of religion have in common?

by jam in

what is the one true religion?

whichever religion is selected,.

all the other religions believe that your religion is wrong.. therfore, the the universal agreement among all religion.

GLTirebiter

they had to be pretty passionate about the "petty differences". In many cases lives were threatened or taken.

Sadly, that is true. However, the passionate ones who create the atmospheres the take lives are often the leaders, or those who aspired to become the leaders. The majority of followers, then as now, were and are just that: followers eagerly doing as they are taught. The passionate ones who incite the zealous fervor are relatively few. It took being away from all religion for many years, followed by marriage to a Witness woman, before I realized how just much the various factions actually have in common.

Many religions do not follow Jesus.. I would say these are major differences. That is the foundation of Christianity, Jesus.

Case #1, Jesus: Granted, my comments were primarily centered on Christianity. Christians accept Jesus as fullfillment of Old Testament prophecy, Jews do not. But both Christians and Jews accept the Old Testament that contains those prophecies.

Case #2: Christians, Jews and Moslems all believe in the God of Abraham, though in different ways and by different names.

Even comparing to religions that didn't originate in the middle East, there is similarity.

Case #3, reincarnation: Christians believe in a second life, while disagreeing on whether it is spiritual, physical, or some blend of the two. Hindus also believe in reincarnation, physical reincarnation, until perfection is attained allowing one to join the divine. Christians share the belief that "self" is not limited to our present physical body, that there is a soul, a future life and reunion with God. Buddhism teaches a more figurative rebirth rather than a literal one, but shares the concept of attaining an ideal state, nirvana. Yes, the details and names differ considerably; but the basic premise is similar.

Case #4, right and wrong: The standards for conduct have much in common: you may not murder, lie, steal, or act immorally. You are expected to treat other persons fairly, and expect them to do the same to you. This is the concept of natural law.

Yes, I do think there is considerable agreement on the moral and spiritual levels. These are what I consider to be the important similarities. The differences are not so great until aggravated by man-made passions. That polarized "I'm completely right so you must be completely wrong!" attitude is what I am calling a false dichotomy. As Palimpset said, some faiths do take this to heart.

7

Punchdown arguments at the JW religion

by bottleofwater in

what points are there that can refute the jw religion is one fell swoop?

those that can't be truthfully refuted....

GLTirebiter

To a true believer, there probably aren't any. They will hear what they want to hear, applying rote refutations to the arguments they have been prepared for, and dismissing the rest as "apostate nonsense".

To a non-believer, there are many persuasive arguments: 607BC, 1874, 1914, 1975, the great pyramid, every "new light" reversal, the "millions now living" who died after all, John 1, John 6, YHWH = Yahweh, and many more.

Arguing these points with a true believer gets you nowhere: you won't convince them until they are ready to be convinced, when they have doffed the "true believer" blindfold of their own accord. If you're trying to convince your family or friends, it's better to keep on loving them--don't feed a "persecution complex" by arguing facts with somebody who isn't interested in hearing them. That often backfires, driving further into the clutches of a high-control group.

In other words, there's no point playing along with their game, using their tactics, by their rules.

9

What does Atheists, Agonostics and 99.97% of religion have in common?

by jam in

what is the one true religion?

whichever religion is selected,.

all the other religions believe that your religion is wrong.. therfore, the the universal agreement among all religion.

GLTirebiter

Whichever religion is selected, all the other religions believe that your religion is wrong.

That's a false dichotomy. Though religions do not agree 100% with each other, that does not mean they all disagree 100% either. I'd suggest that christians average 90% agreement, despite the thousands of distinct Christian sects. We have a common heritage, we have common values. Look for the "truth" in the major things we have in common, not by exaggerating petty differences.

86

Why do you believe the bible? or not?

by AiAi in

when i began questioning the religion i used the bible and their own statements to prove them wrong.

now, recently, i have began to realise that maybe the only reason i put any faith in the bible is because i was always raised to.. so my question is, after leaving the watchtower, what was it that made you decide the bible was worthy of belief?.

i am not asking about any continuing belief in god or disbelief, i am more conscerned about the first step (to me) right now of the bible itself.

GLTirebiter

It's hard to summarize a book in a brief posting. This book should be available in your local library, and it's still available in soft cover (as of a few months ago). This quotation is a sample of what Lewis said:

I know that some people say the idea of a Law of Nature or decent behaviour known to all men is unsound, because different civilisations and different ages have had quite different moralities.

But this is not true. There have been differences between their moralities, but these have never amounted to anything like a total difference. If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each other and to our own.

...

But the most remarkable thing is this. Whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real Right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking one to him he will be complaining "It's not fair" before you can say Jack Robinson.

...

It seems, then, we are forced to believe in a real Right and Wrong. People may be sometimes mistaken about them, just as people sometimes get their sums wrong; but they are not a matter of mere taste and opinion any more than the multiplication table. Now if we are agreed about that, I go on to my next point, which is this. None of us are really keeping the Law of Nature.

51

Turning 64 today.

by Terry in

i'm just uglier and not smarter.

sigh..

GLTirebiter

Happy birthday, Terry!

86

Why do you believe the bible? or not?

by AiAi in

when i began questioning the religion i used the bible and their own statements to prove them wrong.

now, recently, i have began to realise that maybe the only reason i put any faith in the bible is because i was always raised to.. so my question is, after leaving the watchtower, what was it that made you decide the bible was worthy of belief?.

i am not asking about any continuing belief in god or disbelief, i am more conscerned about the first step (to me) right now of the bible itself.

GLTirebiter

can one accept the conclusion God exist only based on evidence and reasoning?

Yes. "Natural Law" is the evidence--not a mathematical proof, but evidence none the less. C. S. Lewis expressed this far more eloquently than I possibly could. The introduction ends at 6:30.

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