a short time ago i sought information regarding a quotation in the watchtower of april 1, 2010, which did not identify the exact source of the quotation from professor oskar skarsaune.
my interest was heightened because words had been omitted from the source.. the wts provided a copy of the original 29-page article, which is in norwegian.. here is my very unofficial personal translation of the passage from professor skarsaune's article that the watchtower is quoting.
firstly i provide the text as it appears in the watchtower magazine, highlighting where the text has been omitted.
"Which writings were to be included in the New Testament, and which were not, was never passed by any church fashion or by any individual, but was the result of a process in which many churches in all parts of the church were involved..."
In other words, the New Testament canon is a doctrinal Tradition of the church. Since the WTBTS rejects Traditions as false teachings, do they reject the New Testament?
how is everybody doing?.
it's been 8 months since i've been here.. so many newbies!.
lol.. sylvia.
i guess we have to assume that jesus was circumcised on the 8th day but what about adam?
he was "perfect", so did he have the weenie cut or not?.
i would like to bring this question up at a "get-together".. rub a dub .
a jw made the claim "no christian [jw] has ever murdered anyone".. when i showed examples of such, the goalposts moved a bit with "was he a baptized, dedicated witness?".
can anyone provide examples of murders committed by "baptized, dedicated" jws?.
thanks.
It's a case of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. If he puts sugar on his porridge, he is not A True Scotsman. If a JW murders, he was not A True Christian.
i have known all of them over the last 15 years, talked at length with them, and knew what their wishes were, the copyright holder and spouse spent even more time with them socially and helping them set up their arrangements for when ray and cynthia passed.
i don't believe that anyone else on this board or others was a confidant.
there is no need to prove it to anyone but the copyright office which is satisfied with this.
It's very disappointing that this book is still not readily available by legal means.
It's legally available through Amazon, though somewhat pricey.
http://www.recordonline.com/article/20151214/news/151219671.
battle over contamination at watchtower site in warwick.
by hema easley .
hello i was wondering if any ex jw have converted to catholic?
i have been tossing the idea around a bit and wondering if it was woth it from personal experience?
thoughts?
Tom Cabeen is an articulate former Witness who is now Catholic [interview on Youtube, discussed in this JWN thread]. There also is a JWN thread linking to an audio interview with Randall Watters. You can read several of Tom's articles at the catholicxjw.com.
i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.
most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.
i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.
What is the best way to deal with her JW mindset so that I can help her.
If she does not want to be helped out of the Watchtower organization, then there's not much you can do for her. It is more often counter-productive. Some people prefer to stay, because it is their comfort zone, especially when that comfort zone includes their relatives.
She didn't call. So today, to help her out, I added some minutes to her cell ph. When I called her to check if ph co. added the minutes, she ranted on about not to buy her cell minutes and not to call her.
It seems she has made a choice, and that she chose the Witnesses, Your best course would be to not pressure her. It is more likely to drive her further into the Watchtower, rather than draw her towards you. I think the best and most honorable course is to do as she wishes, and move on.
It is sad that it has turned out that way, but prolonging things is more likely to make things worse than to improve them. Cherish the memory of the good, recognize the difficulties, and move on.
i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.
most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.
i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.
(1) What, if any, is the consequence or significance of being deemed "spiritually weak"?
Officially, they should be encouraged to become better Witnesses. In practice, they often are avoided, left off invitation lists (a significant burden when your social circle consists almost entirely of other JWs), and gossiped about (the phrase "Holier than thou" comes to mind). "Spiritually Weak" is not the lowest spot in the Kingdom Hall pecking order, but it's very close.
Always remember that your friend is taking a risk just by being your friend, especially with you being a non-believer and of the opposite sex!
(2) What's the deal with a JW member who is unmarried and "disassociates" herself?
They would say "Sister X is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." This makes the person a Bad Association, a person with whom a Witness should have as little contact as possible (generally limited to "essential family matters" for relatives, necessary interaction in the work place, and attempts to convince them to return to the flock). Disassociation means they have given a letter of resignation to the elders (which they may have requested, with being disfellowshipped the likely alternative.) Disfellowshipping would be considered a worse status than disassociation, though the treatment the person receives really isn't much different. Both tend to be worse than a successful fade, just quietly going away while attracting as little attention as possible ("fade" is a term you will see here among the ex-JWs, sometimes it works, other times you called in to see the elders and end up getting disfellowshipped, or involuntarily disassociating.)
However, being disassociated or disfellowshipped means they can feel free to ignore the Watchtower rules about who they can date and marry. Sometimes it's a case of "It's better to beg for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission."
Recommended reading: Dating/Witnessing to a Lapsed Jehovah's Witness, at the freeminds.org web site.
i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.
most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.
i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.
One way they do it is to leave the Watchtower religion temporarily, date the non-JW, become married, and then go back to the Kingdom Hall seeking reinstatement (this often happens when a baby is on the way, as others have mentioned). The returning JW will hear some stern talking-to from the elders, and effectively will be on probation while re-earning their status as an active, obedient witness. This is how I came to be married to a JW; my ex-wife left the Kingdom Hall before we met, and returned soon after we married.p.s. Since a JW is admonished not to even date a non JW. How has a JW spouse navigated things in such a way as to end up with a non JW spouse?
Another way applies married couples where neither is a Witness. Then one spouse converts to the Watchtower Society, but the other. If the Un-Believing Mate loves their spouse and values the marriage, he will want to stay with his wife regardless of her religion. I use the pronouns' gender deliberately: a JW wife is supposed to be obedient and subservient to her husband, while if the husband converts to the Watchtower he is expected to exercise headship and make his wife do the right thing--i.e., go with him to every meeting at the Kingdom Hall and go with him for at least ten hours of door-to-door preaching (service) every month. He would be seen as spiritually weak if he does not convince her to do so.
Yet another way is if both once were JWs, but one of them either left the Watchtower religion (disassociated) or was kicked out (disfellowshipped). The former witness becomes a pariah, and often the subject of speculative gossip. The JW spouse and other family members are taught to limit their interaction with the former JW to essential family business. Their JW friends without family ties are expected to avoid the former witness altogether. That adds considerable stress to the marriage; divorce too often follows. Of the ways I have listed here, this is the hardest path for a JW and non-JW couple to follow.
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(Words and phrases in bold italics have specific meanings to Witnesses. Learn their vocabulary, so you can understand what they are saying.)
[edited to fix paragraph beaks and to highlight reinstatement]
