Fernando

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Posts by Fernando

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  4

  An easy question for honesthearted R&F (rank and file) JWs

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "if you are not sons of god, whom are you calling father?".

  (john 8:44; rom 8:14-16).

  greetings and blessings.

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  Fernando

  "If you are not sons of God, whom are you calling father?"

  (John 8:44; Rom 8:14-16)

  Greetings and blessings

  Fernando

  "Our heavenly father is calling us all to become religiously passive, and spiritually active" (Matt 22:14 BBE).
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  272

  *Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

  by Lily Pie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

  i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

  lutherans say.

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  Fernando

  Dear Brotherdan

  They are indeed deep and rich - I agree wholeheartedly.

  I am tempted to string them into a single sentence.

  "Salvation (imputed eternal life), sanctification (imputed holiness), justification (imputed righteousness), and forgiveness (imputed sinlessness) are by genuine FAITH and GRACE alone, in CHRIST alone, and the GLORY OF GOD alone, according to SCRIPTURE alone".

  Of course Satan the Devil and his legalistic minions are incensed at the glaring omissions from the Biblical chain and "plan of salvation":

  1. No surreptitious two-class clergy laity system ("the anointed" versus the "other sheep")
  2. No hierarchy (scheming priesthood)
  3. No organisation (bureaucracy between God and man - John 14:6)
  4. No Governing Body (Sanhedrin, council of Popes, pseudo-mediators, and VISIBLE golden calf)
  5. No elders or elderettes (priests)
  6. No buildings, real estate empire, meetings, conventions, Judging Committees, Watchtowers, Awakes, paedophiles, nepotism, indulgences, hypocrisy, backstabbing, gossiping, slandering, hate speech, character assassination, self-righteousness, robotic mindlessness, cultism, sectarianism, apostasy, materialism, legalistic religiosity and so on...

  Greetings and blessings

  Fernando
  ©2010
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  272

  *Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

  by Lily Pie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

  i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

  lutherans say.

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  Fernando

  Dear Debator

  Very few of the flock engage faith vs works the way you are, and see the picture you are starting to describe. Sincere congratulations - it is a real struggle in the beginning as many here will confirm. I say this in good faith - trusting that you are indeed sincere and genuine.

  If you feel ready to dig deeper into the 5 solas, please do the following and let us know the outcome soonest.

  1. Ask any elder to read Titus 1:7,8 to you.
  2. Tell him that you are trying to better understand the requirement to be "righteous" in verse 8.
  3. Tell him you thought it would be good to ask an elder, since they are only appointed if they meet this requirement.
  4. Ask him how he knows that he meets this requirement.
  5. Notice how he outlines his good works.
  6. Notice how he outlines his lack of bad works.
  7. Notice how he avoids the 5 solas.
  8. Notice how he specifically avoids "sola fide" and "sola gratia"
  9. Notice that he does not testify his good works to be filthy rags.
  10. Notice that he does not attribute his status to having Jesus' proven righteousness IMPUTED to him on the basis of genuine faith in the power of the ransom to release him from Satan's legal custody.
  11. Notice that he has effectively failed to confess Jesus Christ (John 12:42,43; 1 John 4:2,3; 2 John 7; Matt 10:32,33 - copy and paste all scriptures directly into Watchtower library search box to save time looking them up individually, hit enter key).
  12. Now ask him if he could please explain the doctrine of justification to you.

  May Jehovah God grant you the faith to "see" and to protect your mind and heart from Satan's poisonous, burning missiles (thoughts that contradict or obscure the 5 solas, and the evidence of general ignorance and insidious contempt for them amongst elders and the flock).

  Just in case you're wondering, our family left after 4 generations, and 4 decades, once we like Luther, "independently" came to see (discern) the 5 solas in the Bible. And yes we admit the transition from religion, Gnosticism and "legalism" to genuine Christian faith involves passing through the valley of death - it is painful to face the facts that one's conscience thrusts upon those desirous of the light.

  Warmest Christian greetings and blessings

  Fernando
  ©2010

  PS - some references that may be useful

  1. sh chap. 13 p. 318 par. 26
  2. w53 9/1 p. 523 (see heading "THE FILTHY RAGS OF SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS")
  3. g79 6/8 pp. 27-28 (mark the words "legalism" and "legalistic")
  4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas
  5. http://www.fivesolas.com/5solas.htm
  6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXp6PoZgvIw
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  172

  Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

  by oldlightnewshite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

  maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

  if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

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  Fernando

  Coffee,

  Thank you. Enjoyed your posts too.

  Everyone has a story to tell once the blinkers fall off, sadly usually after great upheaval and personal pain.

  What God must go through, waiting for us his children to get it, and get out (from Babylon/Egypt).

  Greetings

  Fernando
• 
  172

  Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

  by oldlightnewshite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

  maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

  if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

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  Fernando

  Reasons

  1. "The truth" is a person, not doctrinal supremacy and dissection (aka Pharisaic gnat straining).
  2. God hates religion. Religion is not "the way" to God, Jesus is (John 14:6).
  3. Jesus was against religion, religionists, and teaching religion (proselytizing) Matt 23:15. Instead he promoted evangelizing (teaching the REAL “good news”).
  4. They believe, preach and teach a lethal and false one-ingredient "good news" - having removed all or most of the ingredients related to Jesus' high-priesthood and high-priestly roles. A simple test will reveal this: ask them to explain in writing what the "good news" is in one word, then ask them to expand to one phrase/sentence, and finally 1-3 paragraphs. Their own publications condemn their version of the "good news" as a "sham good news" and "counterfeit good news" (w82 8/15 p. 22 pars. 11-13). Go figure!
  5. They are blind to the "good news" according to Paul, to whom half of all the Bible's references to the "good news" belong. Ask a Watchtower religionist to identify and explain the powerful ingredient of the "good news" referred to in their own 2009 year text (Acts 20:24). They remain unable, no matter how many times they read this verse - clear evidence of spiritual blindness, confusion, inebriation and insanity.
  6. Their faith and salvation has been stolen from them as part of "a deeply laid plot with strong power to deceive" by the VISIBLE golden calf, pseudo-mediator and false Christ - yet they insist on continuing to bow down to and defend this calf. You can show them proof of all the calf's lies, using even only their own Bible and publications, and they remain unmoved, apathetic and disinterested, clearly under a powerful demonic spell (the spirit of religion and legalism, g79 6/8 pp. 27-28).
  7. They mindlessly suppress nagging doubts while adopting and using the golden calf's demonic reasoning to "legitimately" reject Jesus' mediatorship, the New Covenant (aka the Christian Faith), the figuratively and ceremonially drinking the blood of the covenant for forgiveness of sins, and similarly partaking of Jesus' flesh.
  8. God is calling us all to become religiously passive and spiritually active - the WBTS demands exactly the opposite - reacting venomously to any that become spiritually active and sighted, and see their spiritual nakedness. The WBTS has institutionalised the central teaching of demons - unrepentance, exactly as bearers of the divine name have done for thousands of years prior, as recorded in the Bible.
  9. Their illegitimate blasphemous "star chamber" Judicial or Judging Committees which routinely pervert mercy and justice especially against weaker and defenceless victims, whilst arrogantly twisting scripture to claim that their decisions bind the heavens!!! How galling and shameful. It is very telling that no "Repentance Counselling Committee" or "Spiritual Healing Committee" has ever existed. The focus is undeniably evident to all but spiritually inebriated religionists themselves.
  10. To any Watchtower religionists reading this post: how exactly will more reasons benefit you if you're still unmoved by the blatant apostasy above - the detestable things being done in Jerusalem in the name of God?

  It is important to note that most of the flock are sincere but badly deceived, passively ignorant, spiritually lost, unrighteous. They need to hear the REAL "good news" about the REAL Jesus, so as to establish a REAL relationship with our "older brother" so as to reconnect with God on HIS terms, instead of passively following the golden calf.

  The situation amongst the majority of the leaders is however exactly as it was amongst the congregation elders (Pharisees) and Governing Body (Sanhedrin) in Jesus' day. They have been deeply corrupted spiritually by greedily imbibing the harlot's wine - religion, which includes drinking of power, glory and authority unlawfully directed away from Jesus Christ and to humans who supposedly "represent" him as the flock's human mediators in arrogant and blasphemous defiance of John 14:6 and Matt 23:1-15.

  The majority of the leaders although "unaware" of their tragic spiritual state, are therefore deceivers, militantly ignorant, spiritually damned, wicked, evil.

  May God guide, bless and protect all of us as we reject the VISIBLE golden calf and sincerely seek him on HIS terms.

  Fernando
  ©2010
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  28

  so were do I go now that ive left the kingdom hall?

  by arimatthewdavies in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many people for one reason or other have quit going to the kingdom hall me included!

  i dont object to the people for they are clean well dressed human beings, i object to the way a prefabricated doctorine is distributed, useing hugh amounts of books magazines and media to attempt to study the bible,i feel obligated to say i agree with that method and under pressure to promote it, theirfore i stoped going because pretending to agree with this method and rendering lip service to it in order to keep from being disfellowshiped is a lie,and liers go to the lake of fire, .

  so now that we have left the hall were do we go?

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  Fernando

  As previously posted "where" is a deceitful Watchtower fallacy. The correct question is "whom" and the answer is Jesus (John 6:68,69; 14:6).

  Those that have given up on (hierarchical organised/institutionalised) religion, but not on God, are finding the simple, organic (house) church "movement" worth looking into for back-to-basics authentic spiritual development: http://www.site.house2house.com/about-us/welcome (see video).

  Jehovah God is calling us all to become religiously passive, and spiritually active instead. Jesus was clearly against religion, religionists, religiosity and teaching religion which is called proselytising (Matt 23 esp v15). The only legitimate Christian witnessing activity is evangelising - teaching the REAL "good news".

  Just ask a Watchtower religionist what the "good news" is in one word, phrase, sentence and paragraph. They have no idea except for "Kingdom" or the "message of restoration". What about the many other essential ingredients they have removed from the "good news" they believe and teach? No salvation, no saviour, no forgiveness, no high-priest, and the list goes on and on. Their "sham good news" and "counterfeit good news" are no accident but an evil religious plot to steal our faith and salvation as described in their own Gnostic publications in w82 8/15 p. 22 pars. 11-13. They are truly from their father the devil. They are truly the killers of the prophets, just like their forefathers.

  As spiritually blind, confused, inebriated and insane religionists, no matter how many times they read their own 2009 year text in Acts 20:24 they simply cannot identify (let alone explain, believe and teach) the ingredient of the "good news" referred to!! You seriously have to try very hard to end up more wayward and apostate than a Watchtower religionist!

  Around half the Bible's references to the "good news" are by the apostle Paul - this is the half Watchtower religionists are completely blind to. Yet this is the very core of the Christian faith, which is also known as the New Contract, or Testament, or Covenant. All who wish to (in genuine faith and repentance) accept the free gift of forgiveness of their fallen condition and all their sins past, present and future need to figuratively and ceremonially drink the blood of the covenant (Matt 26:27-28)! You'd struggle to find a more apostate pseudo-Christian group than the Watchtower!

  These Google searches may be of interest:

  • "God hates religion" (with quotes)
  • "Spirituality is not religion"
  • "Christianity is not religion"
  • SBNR (avoid new age spiritism though)
  • "Religion is a snare and a racket"
  • 1937_enemies.pdf
  • 1940_religion.pdf

  Search these two pdfs for "true religion", "false religion", and "all religion" - only the latter phrase existed back then. Only ten years later the Watchtower came out of the closet as a religion (snare and a racket). See yb75 p. 161 "For Gladys Bolton..." and w51 8/15 p. 511 Q3.

  Whilst the REAL "good news" is not in the hearts of the Watchtower's followers, it can be found in the Watchtower library although highly fragmented and in a Gnostic context - knowledge not relationship. That is why the NWT mistranslates John 17:3.

  Jesus never really took issue with sinners, or even the heinously barbaric secular authorities. His real enemies were the religionist elders (Pharisees) and governing body (Sanhedrin). They are also the ones who had him killed.

  It is a fallacy that the early Christian congregation had a GB. In fact a careful reading of the Bible shows clearly that Paul was having trouble with the apostles and/or others in Jerusalem who were insisting on circumcision - not properly understanding the transition from the Old Covenant to the New. Those in Jerusalem do not seem to have been the solution initially, but rather the cause of the problem. The testimonies of Paul and Peter helped them see the error of their Judaising legalism and ways (Gal 2:11-3:14; Acts 15:1-29; g79 6/8 pp. 27-28).

  Greetings and blessings on your individual journeys

  Fernando
  ©2010
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  116

  Think ive changed...can see it quite a bit laterly.PLEASE!!

  by angel eyes in

  1. social
  2. family

  putting this out there.....going back 12months ago i was completely different to how i am now.

  i am still loyal to jah and dont go against the scriptures, but even though ive recently returned to pioneering (only aux pio at present) i see im a little more laid back.. i think this has come through having to endure hell and back without any help, except jehovah, which im not complaining, im so glad his been there for me, for us both.

  but i really believe that due to things that have badly and wrongly been allowed to take place etc its moulded me a little different to how i was.

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  Fernando

  Hello Angel Eyes and TruthSeekerIam

  Have been through hell ourselves and know firsthand conditional love, false brothers, weeds etc.

  Have made a few replies recently and one new topic - please check out and see if you can relate and want to chat.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/34114/posted/1

  You can PM me.

  Best wishes for all
  
  Warm Christian love
  
  Fernando
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  15

  WHY DO ELDERS LABEL THOSE EXPOSING ERROR AS APOSTATES?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first topic posted - sorry if it is a bit too long.. why do elders accept this absurd teaching of demons: "anyone rejecting what is not of god, is rejecting god"???.

  evidence that these elders - not their victims - are apostates (wolves, weeds, the man of lawlessness, the antichrist, practicers of spiritism).

  having gone through extreme adversity and consequently deep spiritual waters our family has come to understand apostasy to fundamentally mean the following:.

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  Fernando

  Hello all

  First topic posted - sorry if it is a bit too long.

  Why do elders accept this absurd teaching of demons: "anyone rejecting what is not of God, is rejecting God"???

  EVIDENCE THAT THESE ELDERS - not their victims - ARE APOSTATES (wolves, weeds, the man of lawlessness, the antichrist, practicers of spiritism)

  Having gone through extreme adversity and consequently deep spiritual waters our family has come to understand apostasy to fundamentally mean the following:
  
  Apostasy = unfaithfulness = spiritual unfaithfulness/fornication/adultery/prostitution. Unfaithfulness to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, in particular by not obeying the gospel, which JWs cannot because they do not even know what the gospel is.
  
  Being unfaithful to misguided and/or deceitful men or organisations is not apostasy - except from Satan's point of view. It is insightful to remember that the elders and GB (Sanhedrin) in Jesus day viewed him as the greatest apostate who ever walked the earth. Elders today too, would DF (kill) him in a heartbeat, as they do those choosing to follow Jesus instead of them.
  
  It is very interesting to search the wt library for - prostit* (and then select to display results from the bible only, should see 37 hits in Ezekiel). Here God was calling his own people apostates because they were eating from the table of demons.
  
  The elders along with their leaders and followers will understandably be very uncomfortable with this definition, since it makes it clear that there are two types of apostasy namely overt and covert. Now anyone living a double life is also an apostate. Even worse for the GB et al - persons who reject what is not of God CANNOT be apostates, plus those who go along with what is not of God actually ARE apostates.
  __________________
  
  *** w55 5/15 p. 309 par. 6 Christian Channel of Communication ***
  Finally the apostasy, the unfaithfulness of Israel
  
  *** Rbi8 Jeremiah 3:6 *** Footnote
  Lit., “the unfaithfulness (apostasy), Israel,” thus terming Israel a concrete example of unfaithfulness, or apostasy.
  __________________
  
  We were reminded some time ago (before leaving) of a point at the Divine Teaching convention of 1994: "If it is not in harmony with divine teaching, it is teaching of demons". No argument here. Agree fully.
  
  Some time after a comment at the meeting reflected the rank-and-file belief obtained by oral tradition from the GB: "It is better to be wrong with the elders/congregation/society than right on your own". Problem!!??
  
  Let's combine the above two: "It is better to eat at the table of demons with the elders/congregation/society than at Jehovah's table on your own"!!??
  
  Clearly all religion is a "snare and a racket" - especially this one!!! What a shock when they finally realise that "Babylon the Great" is actually ALL religion including theirs!!!

  ________________

  Revelation 18:21 NW: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again".

  *** yb75 p. 161 Part 2—United States of America ***
  Concerning the sign “Religion is a Snare and a Racket,” Ursula Serenco observes: “This was the time when we did not designate ‘true religion’ and ‘false religion’; all religion in totality was bad. The true we referred to as ‘worship,’ while the false was ‘religion.’”
  _________________
  
  It is interesting to see what Jesus had to say to the elders of likely his own congregation about their proselytising (teaching religion), in Matthew 23:15 NW: “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge·hen′na twice as much so as yourselves".

  Clearly Jesus was himself against religion. He wanted his disciples/followers to teach others the gospel message - not religion (traditions of men).

  Best wishes for all
  
  Warm Christian love
  
  Fernando
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  29

  Question for elder/ex-elders

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why do elders, in judicial committee meetings when dealing with immorality, have to ask so many personal questions, i.e.

  how many times, was oral sex involved, anal sex, how many times, etc.

  is it really necessary or are the elders just getting off asking about someone else's sex life?

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  Fernando

  Dear Tweetiebird

  Your friend is fortunate to have you as someone who cares about her situation.

  As "minimus" suggested it would seem the whole JC process is deeply flawed.

  This is especially so in the search for evidence of past or present unrepentance. One first has to commit the sin of unrepentance (turning away from God) to enable one to commit any other sin. So every single person who has committed a serious sin is also guilty of the sin of unrepentance. Therefore one cannot and should not be disfellowshipped for past or present unrepentance, but rather for "persistent unrepentance".

  So it would seem the correct procedure can be summed up as follows: "A person should only be disfellowshipped as a means of last resort if all reasonable and patient efforts to counsel the person to repentance have failed". If I were still a member I would only confess to a JC who actually believed and practiced this - doubt such a JC exists though, and doubt that this is GB policy.

  The best counselling to repentance is by means of the true gospel which elders neither believe or teach. It can really touch someone's heart when they really understand what repentance on the basis of faith in the ransom sacrifice is. It is so awesomely liberating to understand that Jesus has paid for ALL my sins, past, present and future. I am and remain (for now) in a fallen, sinful captive state and cannot ever prove, earn or deserve a righteous standing before God. I am fully dependant on his mercy and "undeserved kindness" (grace) which he expresses to me a sinner by COUNTING me as righteous by IMPUTING Jesus Christ's righteousness to me on the basis of my repentance (of my fallen condition and sins) and on the basis of my FAITH in Jesus' high-priesthood (liberator/deliverer, atoner/reconciler, saviour).

  Since few if any elders believe in the true gospel God cannot impute righteousness to them. They therefore do not meet the requirement of being righteous. They therefore cannot be led by the Holy Spirit. Especially since they deny anyone but a small group of less than 9,000 worldwide can be sons of god (by imputation).

  Romans 8:14 NW: "For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons". Titus 1:8 NW: "...but hospitable, a lover of goodness, sound in mind, righteous, loyal, self-controlled...".

  Philippians 3:7-9 NW: "Yet what things were gains to me, these I have considered loss on account of the Christ. Why, for that matter, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. On account of him I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ and be found in union with him, having, not my own righteousness, which results from law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that issues from God on the basis of faith. . .
  
  Certainly then at a minimum your friend should first enquire of three elders she trusts, if they are able to confirm that they are "righteous"? If they say yes, she should ask them on what basis they say so? If they then list all their good works, give them a wide berth - this is "works righteousness" and is Pharisaical and from Satan. If they confess being COUNTED as righteous by IMPUTATION (this is scriptural "gifts righteousness") she might consider further enquiring of them how they arrive at disfellowshipping decisions in relation to un/repentance.

  A very viable alternative is for her to pray for Jesus Christ to lead her to the true gospel and to repentance and to faith. This is actually the only way to obtain a clean conscience which men CANNOT give to one. Least of all if they are blind guides as the elders in Jesus day were.

  Over many decades I have never met a single elder that even knows what the true gospel is, although it is nearly fully defined in Isaiah 61:1 and w79 12/15 pp. 5-6: This “good news” is primarily the message that salvation or everlasting life is possible on the basis of genuine faith in the atoning benefits of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, and that God’s kingdom by Christ will bring all things on earth into perfect unity with the holy heavens [aka restoration].

  Christian greetings and love
  
  May Jehovah God continue to bless you and your friend on your spiritual journeys
  
  Fernando
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  20

  Looking for voices of reason

  by judi8751 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is there anyone out there who still goes to meetings or hasnt been for some time.

  i feel so confused dont think i want to go back, but dont want to lose friends either.. its been about 10 months since i attended a meeting ( did go to the memorial though).

  been living apart from my jw husband who just cant believe it, he is well stressing.

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  Fernando

  Dear Judi8751

  You may not understand it at this point but Satan is behind the traumas we all experience with the express purposes of causing suffering AND creating the legal strongholds of FEAR, ANGER, BITTERNESS and RESENTMENT in VICTIMS, through which he can gradually take control of our minds.

  That is why FORGIVENESS is such a powerful weapon against Satan. Praying to God to put forgiveness in your own heart. However you are not obligated to EXTEND this forgiveness to someone who neither ADMITS nor REPENTS. This forgiveness in your own heart is for your OWN protection. It is a biblical principle that is repeated in many scriptures - FORGIVENESS extended to a PERPETRATOR is PRECEDED by REPENTANCE by the perpetrator.

  The most powerful and healing spiritual medicine you will ever encounter is the true "good news" or "gospel". This is the one taught by apostle Paul - not the one taught via oral tradition to and by the elders. If you invite God and his son to put this true "good news" in your heart, and to prepare your heart with faith and repentance of your own fallen, sinful and captive condition - you are close to experiencing true Christian freedom. Yes God wants to use the price Jesus paid to redeem you (despite being a sinner) and IMPUTE righteousness, holiness and perfection to you as his adopted daughter.

  JWs do not believe, teach and/or understand this central biblical doctrine which is called JUSTIFICATION by God's undeserved kindness. JWs teach that the bible is lying when it says that "all sorts of men" can be saved through Jesus' mediatorship (1 Tim 2:4,5) and that "men of all sorts" can be declared "righteous for life" by imputation (Rom 5:18). They claim that this applies only to a small EXCLUSIVE group or CLASS of around 9,000 remaining on the earth - many of whom they regard to be "frauds" because they are "under 60" and/or "emotionally unstable".

  See my post on the "good news" or "gospel" with highlights at:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/183001/2/Starting-a-thread-of-things-witnesses-can-not-do-Ill-start-the-first-Keep-it-going-well-end-up-with-hundreds

  Warm Christian love

  Fernando