JAVA

Joined

• started 58 topics
• posted 1,571 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by JAVA

• 
  9

  1975 True Believers -- 201 (part two)

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in "1975 believer -- 101" at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/88161/1.ashx we discussed how a jehovah's witness with a conviction is a hard person to change despite overwhelming evidence that the conviction is wrong.

  this new thread introduces conditions under which we can expect to observe increased fervor following the disconfirmation of a belief.

  there are five conditions the true believer class needs to increase activity, even when others within the movement decrease involvement.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  In "1975 Believer -- 101" at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/88161/1.ashx we discussed how a Jehovah's Witness with a conviction is a hard person to change despite overwhelming evidence that the conviction is wrong. This new thread introduces conditions under which we can expect to observe INCREASED fervor following the disconfirmation of a belief.
  
  
  There are five conditions the True Believer Class needs to increase activity, even when others within the movement decrease involvement. In general, they are:
  
  
  1. The True Believer must not only have a deep conviction, but it must have some relevance to their action or behavior.
  
  
  2. The True Believer must have taken action that is difficult to undo; the greater the difficulty to undo, the greater the believer's commitment.
  
  
  3. The belief must be very specific and understood by believers and non-believers so the specific event can be refuted.
  
  
  4. The disconfirmed event is evident to others, and the True Believer.
  
  
  5. The True Believer must have social support in order to increase activity or behavior.
  
  
  Fill free to give examples in the Witness community that fit any of the five conditions.
  
  
  I've adapted both threads from information found in, "When Prophecy Fails" by Leon Festinger, Henry W. Riecken, and Stanley Schachter. New York: Harper, 1964. The book reports on a study done through the Laboratory for Research in Social Relations of the University of Minnesota, first published in 1956 by the University of Minnesota Press.
  
  
  I'm fairly sure it's out of print, but used bookstores and computer book-find services might have it. The work is a social and psychological study of a small group that predicted the destruction of the world on December 21, sometime in the early 1950s.
• 
  31

  14 year old rejected by father for not becoming jw

  by orbison11 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok quick recap of events leading to this.

  my dtr married young to prominent family in wtbs...had dtr...dtr now 14 years old....my dtr left hubby and wtbs about 10 yrs ago....she is doing very well in life...... she told me today her 14 years old dtr has not heard from her father (x-hubby) for over a month....why i ask???

  ?because she does not want to become a jw...............he now basically has very little , if anything, to do with her due to this.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  Any parent shunning a child, be it a 14-year old or any age, is nothing more than a non-thinking follower of the Tower. As we know, the Kingdom Halls are full of Brooklyn worshipers.
  
  Hopefully, the 14-year old will grow up a little better in a normal family without the cult influence of a stupid father.
• 
  20

  1975 Believers 101

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a believer of a conviction is a hard person to change.

  tell a believer you disagree with them and he?ll run away.

  show him the facts and figures, and he?ll question the source.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  The Tower has a history of planting innuendos and outright predictions without putting it in print. For sure, their printed page gets them into enough trouble, but they imbed assembly talks with statements not in the WT. It?s little wonder many remember something from years ago, but can?t put our fingers on it years later.
  
  In 1973 I attended, and had a part on the program, during a district assembly in Cincinnati, Ohio. One speaker said: ?Anyone starting a college education today will not have time to graduate before the end of this system of things.? This was during the peak of the 1975 frenzy started by the Tower.
  
  You won?t find it in print, but it was heard by all attending, and we were all talking about it that night back at the hotels, restaurants, pools, and bars. :-)
• 
  14

  Just heard the pope has died

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  The Pope?s death, and some of the others threads started concerning him made me think of a district assembly many years ago. I worked in the News Service Department, and someone in the darkroom had a picture of a Catholic Cardinal, and he superimposed the District Overseer?s head on a made-up photo. He made an 8 x 10 of the new photo, and some of us give it to the District Overseer. He nearly wet himself laughing.
  
  A few days later I was in the car with him, and noticed he still had the photo. He said while taking his car to the carwash, he left the photo in the car, and when an employee got into the car, he too saw the photo, too. When the employee got out he made the sign of the cross, and bowed as the District Overseer got back into the car!
  
  I could tell by the way he was telling the story that he enjoyed it a little too much. I?ll bet he kept that photo for a very long time. This episode could go off into another thread about the Tower?s obsession of hating the Catholic Church more than others, which might suggest a type of jealously.
• 
  20

  1975 Believers 101

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a believer of a conviction is a hard person to change.

  tell a believer you disagree with them and he?ll run away.

  show him the facts and figures, and he?ll question the source.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  The Bible provides us no way to fix the date, and so it does us no good to speculate when that date may be.?Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 24:42, 44."
  
  So we waited paitiently as time went on, and on and ON! (Some of us were slow learners!)

  
  
  Brother Blues -- At least we of the ?slow learners? class finally figured it out (I never like timed exams anyway). ?Gradualism? has a way of helping the facts to slowing sink in. Perhaps this makes up the Great Crowd of former JWs.
  
  The True Believer seems to continue regardless of time, or fact. A voice from above could come down and say, ?The Watchtower Society never had it right, and they never will,? but he wouldn?t believe it because it wasn?t in The Watchtower. It?s impossible to know how many in the Tower make up this class, but we all know some by name.
  
  Thanks to the other posters that added to the thread. I'm certain many have benefited.
• 
  9

  Paste from Word

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  for some reason, i can't paste the story from word.

  i'll try another time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  Thanks for all your comments concerning an empty subject line--you folks are way too cool!
  
  I'll try going to notepad first before pasting to the forum the next time this happens. I hope you enjoyed the nonsubject thread. :-)
• 
  16

  What is a clear, concise definiton of SPIRITUALITY?????

  by jazbug in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's buzzwords are "i'm not religious, i'm spiritual.

  anyone have an understandable meaning to spirituality that's not riddled with doublespeak.

  thanks, jazbug

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  If you are a dub , you might be "spritual" if :

  
  Brother Blues' definition is a lot more creative and fun to read than the one I posted. This must be a "sign" that he's more spiritual than me. (Now where's the WT and highlighter; I'll make 4 comments during the WT Study!)
• 
  16

  What is a clear, concise definiton of SPIRITUALITY?????

  by jazbug in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's buzzwords are "i'm not religious, i'm spiritual.

  anyone have an understandable meaning to spirituality that's not riddled with doublespeak.

  thanks, jazbug

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  Spirituality means being spiritual. The word is typically used in a religious concept in contrast to material or worldly things. It?s different from the word ?pious? (which can be seen) in that it?s connected to the mind, spirit, or temperament. I believe it?s a difficult word to define because refinement and concern for ?higher things in life? is hard to pin down and put into words.
• 
  18

  Young People Ask: How Can I Make Real Friends?

  by seattleniceguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my friends were doing some spring cleaning the other day and they found an old copy of this video.

  for grins, we decided to toss back a coke and whiskey or two and watch it.

  it was a blast!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  Thanks for the movie review, SNG. I?m sorry I missed this meat in due season from the almighty Tower. I was out the door by the early 1980s when assembly dramas wowed the faithful (I was in one of them). Talk about corny, but I remember how most were in their seats during dramas. No walking around trying to look official or busy during those times. You know assemblies are boring if the dramas draw in the crowds.
  
  If I only waited on Jehovah I could have had the pleasure of seeing God?s Organization in pictures. I feel so bad. :-)
• 
  20

  1975 Believers 101

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a believer of a conviction is a hard person to change.

  tell a believer you disagree with them and he?ll run away.

  show him the facts and figures, and he?ll question the source.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JAVA

  I began having doubts even though I considered myself to be a firm believer in the "truth". As the years passed a d ecade and another decade, I could see my doubts getting bigger and bigger. I stayed in a loveless marriage to a fanatical witness for 28 years. By 1999 I had it.

  
  
  Orangefatcat ? I was in the Tower for about the same time as you, but left somewhat sooner. I tried to do the JW fade, but my ?fanatical witness? spouse ran to the elders when she found out I actually voted for a levy to support our community schools. Unfortunately, many Witness marriages have nothing in common except staying on the Tower?s treadmill. When the sect is gone, the marriage soon follows. As True Believers, we were married first and primarily to the Tower, and our mates made the arrangement look normal.
  
  

  Now at age 53, I am still in a struggling with my spirituality. . . I have been to disappointed by the Org. family and friends.

  
  
  I think deep inside the True Believer knows the struggle of spirituality is too great to risk, and can?t allow it to surface. Sure, God?s Organization got it wrong, ?but it?s God?s Organization, and where else can we go? is the mantra. Say it long enough, repeat it countless times, and the circular thinking becomes Truth.
  
  It takes great courage to leave a sure thing, which we?re not sure of anymore. The spiritual quest is altogether new for exiting Witnesses. Some find it down the street at the corner church, others by a personal relationship or myth without four walls and pews. Others chuck it all, and get along just fine, or not so fine.
  
  I remember attending a few services and thinking, ?this can?t be a true religion because they have a cross up front.? It takes a long time to clean the closet.