COMF,
Really enjoyed the cartoon--thanks! After reading David Yoder's description of the Amish culture, it's about the only thing I've chuckled about with this sect.
Posts by JAVA
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26Amish - JWs similiar problems
by larc insomething to read,.
i just found a site where david yoder describes the amish culture in great detail.
it is fascinating to get an inside view of their world.
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Amish - JWs similiar problems
by larc insomething to read,.
i just found a site where david yoder describes the amish culture in great detail.
it is fascinating to get an inside view of their world.
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JAVA
Found this artice in today's paper about an Amish group in Pennsylvania:
[From the Dayton Daily News: 04.09.2001]
Religious belief runs up against traffic lawAmish say colorful reflectors on buggies violate their belief
Associated Press
NICKTOWN, Pa. | Roads winding around rolling hills cut picturesque paths through this western Pennsylvania hamlet.
But those curves make it difficult for drivers to spot slow-moving Amish buggies — especially at night, when the all-black, horse-drawn vehicles can fade into the darkness.
‘‘I have had some close calls, and it’s really scary,’’ said resident Bonnie DeFazio. ‘‘At night, you can see something there, but you can’t always tell what it is.’’
There have been no deaths or serious injuries, but the threat has sparked a showdown with the small, conservative Swartzentruber Amish community.
Swartzentrubers came to western Pennsylvania in 1997 from eastern Ohio. There are now about a dozen families in the area some 65 miles east of Pittsburgh.
Its members refuse to use the standard warning symbol of a bright orange triangle that state law requires on slow-moving vehicles, saying the colorful reflectors violate their belief in plain personal belongings. Instead, they outline the back edges of their buggies with gray reflective tape.
Although most other Amish groups in Pennsylvania use the orange reflectors, the Swartzentrubers have received the backing of the American Civil Liberties Union. And state Sen. John D. Wozniak, who represents the area including Nicktown, said last week that he would introduce a bill that would allow the Swartzentrubers to use their reflective tape.
Donna Doblick, a Pittsburgh attorney representing the Swartzentrubers, said four states — including Ohio — permit reflective tape outlining the back of a buggy as a substitute for the orange triangle. Doblick’s firm and the ACLU are working with Wozniak to draw up similar legislation for Pennsylvania.
In December, Jonas Swartzentruber spent three days in jail after being cited for not having a triangle on his buggy. Since then, 10 other members of the sect have been cited, and all say they would rather go to jail than pay the $100 fine or perform community service.
‘‘Doing community service would probably require us to ride in a truck or work with electrical tools,’’ said Levi Zook, one of those who have been cited. ‘‘We don’t want to go to jail, but that is what we will do.’’
Pennsylvania law requires all slow-moving vehicles, including Amish buggies and farm equipment, to display the familiar triangle reflectors as a warning to drivers coming from behind.
‘‘Slow-moving vehicles are at risk when they travel on the roads in Pennsylvania,’’ said Jack Lewis, a State Police spokesman. ‘‘The reflective emblem law is designed to promote safety. We are enforcing that law.’’
Lewis said there have been a few crashes involving Swartzentruber Amish buggies, and State Police began enforcing the reflector law after other residents complained.
The Swartzentrubers are among several conservative Amish orders in Pennsylvania and elsewhere that object to the reflectors — both because of the bright colors and the idea that they should wear a symbol for their protection.
‘‘They’ve cited to me scriptural passages about the perils of putting your faith in a man-made symbol instead of putting your faith in God,’’ Doblick said. ‘‘You have to remember these people read the Bible very literally and find that aspect — the symbol, the triangle — very problematic.’’
One safety researcher argues against an exemption.
‘‘That triangle is there for communicating, ’Hey — I’m moving slowly,’’’ said Tom Schnell, director of the Operator Performance Laboratory at the University of Iowa. ‘‘When you see not just a triangle, but an orange triangle, you know there’s a slow-moving vehicle ahead.’’
But in a similar case in Wisconsin, state Supreme Court justices in 1996 upheld the right of conservative Amish to use white reflective tape instead of the required orange triangle. Courts in Minnesota and Michigan also have sided with the Amish.
‘‘If we can find something that’s equally effective, why not let them use it?’’ Wozniak said.
--JAVA
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21
Just getting Started..
by Casper inhi everyone........i love this site...!!!.
i just recently found it...and it feels so good to hear.
people talk about things that have been buzzing around in.
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JAVA
Casper,
In the post to Liberated, I see you're harboring negative feelings about the TM School. I was the TMS servant before the elder system went into effect, so I'll let you off the hook this time, but I'm going to mark you weak (W) on Gestures. This will give you something to work on for your next assignment.
Ewwwww, You are deep..... having just floated away from the
org.. I feel kinda nervous, questioning the Bible.Well, it gets a little deep around here, and it always pays having a good pair of boots handy. There are a few folks on the list I consider deep thinkers, but trust me on this--I'm not one of them. I've been out of the Tower longer than you with time to process and play with questions and concepts. That's not deep Casper, it's old age!
what do you believe in..????
Oh a little of this and that, but nothing too important. I run with some Unitarians at present, but that's not a group for everyone. You'll usually find a mix of Atheists, Agnostics, a few Buddhist, some non-fundi Christians, and Pagans to round out the group. Religion is okay if you don't take it seriously and think others are lost unless they believe like you. I had enough of that in the Tower, and don't need to repeat the same mistake.
If looking for an intersting religious author, you might find books by John Shelby Spong a good read. I've read several, and enjoyed Why Christianity Much Change or Die. He's a deep thinker, and not afraid to speculate outside the orthodox box, an unusal trait for a bishop of Christian faith. Of course, you could join the brother/sisterhood of Sunday Morning Mattress Worshipers--that works for some, and you can shun the rising sun.
--JAVA
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To JAVA - Re: Book Success
by ros inhi there, java:.
sorry for the delay in replying to your response to my down-the-line message about jim kostelniuk's book, "wolves among sheep".
(i'm off-line quite a bit at this time, but hope i'll be back on track in another week or so.
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JAVA
The book looks like a good read, one that I'll buy for a personal copy. The waiting list you mentioned is interesting--that's an intriguing story. I don't blame you for not getting into the book distribution business, and there is little reason why folks can't order from the publisher, amazon.com, etc. Again, thanks for the heads up about this book.
--JAVA
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Just getting Started..
by Casper inhi everyone........i love this site...!!!.
i just recently found it...and it feels so good to hear.
people talk about things that have been buzzing around in.
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JAVA
Casper,
"Feel the rocks trembling"....I never really thought about it...just felt there had to be a higher power or something out there. I have had, what I felt, were answered prayers..many times.
Yeah, questioning the unquestionable can make the knees a little weak. A couple of years ago the Witnesses were in the neighborhood. I didn't see them coming until they knocked on the door as I was leaving the house. They started into their little sermon and I cut them off with the safe "I'm not interested" comment so I could be on my way. The older JW said, "well, I'm sure you believe in the Bible." At that point I said, "No, I don't believe the Bible is the Word of God." The poor dear didn't know what to say, and they left.
As I was driving to the office I seriously thought about what I just said. After thinking about it, I realized I nevered questioned the Bible in the way that I questioned other religious books and concepts. To make a long story a little shorter, I came to realize the Bible had many problems, and many contradictions. The only thing I could prove about the Bible was that it was written by serveral writers, and a bunch of other guys got together and picked stuff out that suited them at a period in time because they needed something "holy" to compete with other groups of their time. When thinking about this I realized something I didn't think of before.
If I was God, I would do a lot better than that--and I'm not that gifted! Anyway, when I read your post I had to ask, "Why?" At this point in life, I don't believe in anything unless I can give a good answer to "why."
--JAVA
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1975 New Info
by AlanF init means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end.".
the lead article "the finest work on earth" in the october 1967 km (p. 1) continued the theme of preaching with a sense of urgency:.
the sense of urgency was effective in getting some students to make a decision.
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JAVA
TT,
Great Name Tag
thanks
--JAVA
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I've Decided To Go Back. Goodbye Everyone.
by Englishman ini've been thinking about doing this for almost a year now.. ever since i left i have wanted to go back.. my wife is coming with me too.. it's not just me either, 4 of my closest friends are coming to take a look.. i really do like the people too.. so, it's almost time for me to say goodbye.. because this sunday i shall be going.. i'm off on holiday to madeira again!!!
but i'll be back in about 10 days, so goodbye until then.. keep bashing the wt!
engishman.
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JAVA
Good one Englishman--you are a ... well, you know.
Don't take any wooden nickels or Tower magazines while away--they're both worthless.
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
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Just getting Started..
by Casper inhi everyone........i love this site...!!!.
i just recently found it...and it feels so good to hear.
people talk about things that have been buzzing around in.
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JAVA
Casper,
I chose it since I am suppose to be spiritually dead, and it
seemed appropriate. At least I am a "Friendly Ghost" LOL..lol, good use of the name. I didn't know "Casper the Friendly Ghost" was still around. While in high school, I was totally in love with a girl with very fair skin. I called her "Casper" as an affectionate pet name. That was 36-years ago!!!
I truly do believe in the Bible..I DO..I believe that everything it says will come true...
Honest question follows: Why?
--JAVA
Hunting JWs at the Coffee Shop -
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1975 New Info
by AlanF init means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end.".
the lead article "the finest work on earth" in the october 1967 km (p. 1) continued the theme of preaching with a sense of urgency:.
the sense of urgency was effective in getting some students to make a decision.
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JAVA
Alan,
As usual, the presentation and research is top drawer. The '75 fiasco helped many JWs awake from Tower sleepwalking, and exit thereafter. It's sheer lunacy when JWs today say, "The Society didn't say the end was coming in 1975." Of course the Tower didn't say those exact words, but anyone with an IQ above room temperature knew what the Society believed about '75. ("It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years." The Watchtower, August 15, 1968, page 499) Thanks Alan!
Simon--a question: Can folks with Web sites link to this thread i.e., http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/post.asp?id=49261&method=reply&site=3 as a resource for this topic?
PS: Simon--I just tried clicking on the above link and it took me to the link for posting, not the topic read link--rats.
--JAVA
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latest CO visit...
by Dogpatch inlatest circuit overseer visit (4/6/01).
dear randy.
i had to just take this time right now to give you another example of the low quality of the teaching within the borg and its also shows how desperate they are.. my sister went to the circuit assembly this past weekend and on the needs of the circuit portion this is what the circuit overseer (gibson) brought out:.
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JAVA
Interesting post Randy, thanks. The Tower keeps shooting themselves in the foot, each time hitting themselves higher. They do more to turn believers away than any of the ex-JW sites could hope to do.
--JAVA
Hunting for JWs at the Coffee Shop