God is a human dishonoring concept. I use world history to support that concept.
Posts by JAVA
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383 Gods Equal 1 God?
by 7robert7 inas i sat back thinking of some of the discussions i've had with witnesses over the years, one always stands out.
the issue of the trinity teaching, whereby father(jehovah), son(jesus), and holy spirit when combined equal one god.
a witness friend from work once said that it was an impossability, and was beyond human understanding.. i asked him what he thought we believed about the trinity, to which he responded with a math lesson.. 1 jehovah god + 1 jesus god + 1 holy spirit god = 3 gods, he went on to state that 1 + 1 + 1 can never equal 1 god, it always equals 3. to which i added a little math lesson i learned as a child.. 1 jehovah god x 1 jesus god x 1 holy spirit god can equal 1 almighty god.
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Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave
by JAVA inperhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
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JAVA
I found another interesting tidbit from the book to share about the so-called unity of the Witnesses. The paragraphs below are taken from pages 106-7:
The Testimony Card
As a result we have the origin of the familiar testimony card. The mental activity of the Kingdom Publisher had declined to such an extent that it became almost impossible for him to present his own message as he went from door to door. The result was the testimony card, prepared at headquarters. The Witness could present this card to the householder in explanation of the current book offer, as does the deaf mute in an effort to sell his wares.This testimony card was a vicious thing with pathetic results. During World War II, when I accompanied conscientious objectors to examination boards where hearings were held to determine the validity of their claim of being ministers, I realized to my consternation that most of such Jonadabs were incapable of answering even the most rudimentary questions about the Bible. It was appalling to realize how little Jehovah’s Witnesses of the Jonadab class knew about the Scriptures and how much their knowledge was limited to things discussed in the Watchtower magazines and Society issued books. I was actually ashamed to sit there and listen to their hemming and hawing. One board member once said, “You mean to tell me that you are a minister and cannot tell me where to find this passage of Scripture?” “We do not use this method of preaching. We use a testimony card,” cockily replied the Jonadab.
That testimony card graphically showed the nadir to which a whole people had sunk who had once prided themselves in their Scriptural acumen and knowledge. Instead of being begotten “with the word of truth” (James 1:18), the Jonadabs were begotten of the Theocratic spirit of a mass organization, by seeds other than the word of God, mass seeds of Watch Tower books, booklets and magazines. … Since their viewpoint emanated entirely from the opinions and conclusions which they read in the Society’s publications, their brain became totally washed of any other ideas they might ever have loosely held about the Bible, themselves or other people. Their own thoughts were thus replaced by a narrow sphere or circumscribed area of thought, or as the Watch Tower put it, a “channel.” They became “Organization minded.” (pp. 106, 107)
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
26
Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave
by JAVA inperhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
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JAVA
RR: Thanks for the URL and info. The second edition of the book has 207 pages. The abridged version has 192 pages; I wonder what was cut? If it's the Forward, you're not missing much.
Osarsif: Appreciate the WT issue date and page. My WT CD only goes back to 1950; guess the Tower didn't have light before the '50s when Jehovah appointed them the F&DS.
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
26
Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave
by JAVA inperhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
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JAVA
HCM, James, outnfree, & Patio: Glad you liked the segments posted from the book. HCM, I might do other sections of the book when time permits.
TR: I saw the book in the library when I was a JW years ago, but didn’t have the good sense to read it. However, Schnell’s preachy style would have been a real turnoff at that time, and I only tolerate it today because of the historical content.
Norm:
Of course when Schnell “found Jesus” he found another butt to kiss.
You have such a way with words! Thanks for adding the WT quote. What date and page is it from?
Jan: I agree, Schnell’s book lacks documentation and cannot be considered scholarly. It’s a shame, because his timeline and conclusions are mostly on target, but without documentation the book is reduced to interviewing someone who was there. It could have been so much more if he spent time documenting and less time preaching. He’s an example of jumping from the frying pan and into the fire. However, I think Norm expressed it better than me!
RR: Your point about Schnell living in Germany, and Germany being a prototype of things to come are of interest. Schnell claims this in the book, but I wonder if he was being a little egocentric because that’s where he lived most of his Tower days. I don’t understand why Rutherford would use German JWs as trial balloons when he had most of the eastern states in the US full of gullible subjects. Some changes might have started first in Germany, but I wonder if it had more to do with the systems already in place, and less to do with prototype planning?
Englishman: Your library experience is so interesting. Maybe you could start a “30 Years WT Slave Reading Club” in Leigh Park. Put an add in the local, and see how many show up!
trevor: Really enjoyed your comments, and your poem certainly speaks to the place Schnell’s book holds in the line of witnesses exposing the Tower. Indeed, 30 Yrs was one of the first songs of the lark.
PS: Treavor, the picture is Nimrod out of From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, the Tower's 1958 book on how to scare the hell out of little JW kids. I thought Nimrod was a good "hunting" for hours icon at the Coffee Shop.
cocolocoii: Don’t be too hard on Fred. He’s our court jester, and I don’t want to get him into trouble with the elders. I’m just trying to figure out who turns the computer on for him!
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
26
Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave
by JAVA inperhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
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JAVA
Fred--if I needed a place to hid from the authorities, the Kingdom Hall would be the place. No Fred, I don't violate children, but thanks for offering your sanctuary from morality.
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
26
Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave
by JAVA inperhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
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JAVA
Nice hearing from you Fred. Speaking of nuts, how's it going at your Kingdom Hall? Still hiding brothers screwing children from the authorities?
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
26
Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave
by JAVA inperhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
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JAVA
Perhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former Witness about the Watchtower Society is, Thirty Years a Watch Tower Slave by William J. Schnell, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1956. It’s been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book. Schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the Watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954.
In part, the Foreword reads: “By the Lord’s grace I am a Christian. … Early in life I was inveigled to join the Watch Tower Organization, and subsequently became totally enslaved to it. … By the Lord’s grace I came free when He lifted my up from a night of prayer, and when I became so agitated and alive once again spiritually that I made a vow unto the Lord. That night I came free!”
The theme of Schnell’s newly found Christian walk runs throughout the book, and his research cannot be considered scholarly. However, I think this book serves a valuable resource that started exposing some of the Watchtower’s underhandedness to the public in the USA. I found a second edition (November 1956) of the book at a used bookstore, and will share sections of Chapter 4 (“A Look at the Organization in America”). The following are segments from pages 37 to 42:
The Judge Takes Over
No sooner had Charles T. Russell died (1916) than there came into play a behind-the-scene tug of war for his mantel. Russell’s will left instructions for certain men to succeed him. However, the legal counsel, Judge Rutherford, was able to maneuver proxies of the Corporation in such a way that he emerged President of the Watch Tower Society. …The Judge in his pronouncement of 1919 had accomplished another result favorable to the Society. By seemingly opposing Christendom’s support of the war, he had been successful in separating the Watch Tower Society from all other organizations which lay claim to being Christian. Now it became necessary to build the Watch Tower Society into a powerful organization, which would not only supply Bible Students with literature and Bible helps and arrange conventions for them, but which would focus world attention on this esoteric Watch Tower, in exactly the sense as the first Watch Tower of Babel was elevated over the rank and file of mankind. … The Watch Tower Society of Brooklyn was now beginning to claim that its edifice would be the refuge which would carry millions across the rubicon, so to speak, that is across Armageddon into the Millenium, in which it would emerge as “The New World Society” to last a thousand years.
The Judge Plans Changes
In order to build this New World Society it became necessary to change the Organization’s policy. The Organization had to be given a forward focus, with a goal and an ideal embedded in a Scriptural setting. For the time being, using as a base the books of Charles T. Russell which were accepted everywhere in Bible Student circles, he settled on a theme of "The Kingdom,” using the World War and ensuing climactic conditions as the window dressing for the need of world-wide witnessing campaign. His first feelers in this direction in 1919 had been highly successful. This prompted him to bring about a Convention to be held in September of 1922 at Cedar Point, Ohio, where, as previously related, the assembled delegates of the Convention were prevailed upon to pass enthusiastically a resolution sponsored by him, titled “Advertise, Advertise, Advertise, the King and His Kingdom!”The Judge knew that it would take more than a motto to put his plans across. Up to that time the Bible Students had been of such rugged individuality type that they claimed they had fled various organizations in order to become and remain free and unencumbered in their quest of Bible studies and living as Christians. … In order to sell such people the idea of a super organization required not only a policy change, but an unusual acumen. The Judge had it!
How was it done? Again by raising an issue outside of the core of Bible Students and outside of the orbit of their thinking. Realizing that Bible Students had left the various church organizations and denominations behind, because these were organized, the Watch Tower Society and its President framed an anti-Christendom or anti-organization policy, … While he drew this red herring across the horizon of the congregations of Bible Students throughout the world, he began to lay the ground for an organization far more absolute and far more rigidly organized than was the Catholic Church which it so bitterly opposes. This organization not only presumes to take the place of the organized Christian Churches which were so vociferously accused and condemned by the Watch Tower Society from 1919 on, but they daub their organization as “God’s Organization,” the churches and all others being the Devil’s organization.
The Society Puts Its House in Order
The next step was taken by the Watch Tower Society with the publishing of an entirely new set of books and booklets, with a new slant, paving the way for total organization. This literature was intended to affect change of thinking on all such matters amidst the Bible Student congregations and gradually to supplant individual thinking with organization mindedness. In order to make such media available cheaply and in large quantities, the Watch Tower Society purchased its own printing plants, and with the book The Harp of God (1922) began its publishing and printing career. Soon it was able to put out larger books for only 35 cents a book, coming down eventually to as low as 25 cents a book; and a flood of these began to flow out into the world.The use of Watch Tower Society published books, booklets and magazines had a three-fold purpose: (1) to effect mass thinking within the orbit of the Organization on all matters pertaining to the Scriptures; (2) to occupy all Bible Students, if possible, with the selling of these books to all mankind, and in doing so to raise issues for cleavage; (3) to form a financial backlog of funds to support a sustained world-wide increase campaign to come.
… In order then to crystallize matters to the point of a crisis, the Society instituted early in 1925 a rigid method of accounting and reporting to it all time spent in witnessing with its books. …
Having successfully invaded the congregations of the Bible Students, and after forcing about three-fourths of the adherents to leave them, the Society soon had the quorum to operate without opposition among those left behind. Now they were free to ignore individuality. Without opposition they could now establish set minimum monthly time requirements for each Publisher as well as book quotas of minimum numbers of books to be sold per month. …
Thus the Society established a mode of “worship” within the new Organization based on business quotas and quantums, making “merchandise of men,” as had the Jews done in their temple in the days of Jesus (John 2:16). …
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
30
Field Service, Anyone?
by Farkel inthe human brain is a non-stop chattering machine.
it is constantly evaluating, making decisions and judgments.
there is not a human being alive that isn't an abject hypocrite nearly every day.
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JAVA
Farkel,
Thumbs Up for a great read--you described time in the field with total honesty. The "Kingdom Publisher(s)" were created in 1925 by Rutherford after he started a huge sales campaign a few years earlier. I'm sure the sale of donuts and coffee increased sharply with these dates. Thanks Farkel, I enjoyed the read.
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
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Did you/Do you actually LIKE Field Service?
by LovesDubs ingod i hated it..every living breathing minute of it.
it was pure hell for me, and based on the pace i see the jws all over the world moving, they aint so fond of it neither.
the persecution that the jws feel they get is from irritated householders who know nothing about their religion except that they hit people over the head with it and then judge them because they dont like being hit over the head with it.
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JAVA
riz & Angharad took the bait,
It used to upset me seeing the Witnesses doing their thing in the neighborhood, knowing their background. I figured if I'm allowing the JWs to upset me, then I'm still giving them control--that had to stop. This is what I did the next time they came around:
I walked outside and joined the group--no kidding! I said, "How's it going; do you have any return visits on this block or are we just going door-to-door?" A few in the group usually remembered me from the congregation, and would inform the others I'm disfellowshipped. At this point I interrupt with, "Yes, I'm being shunned because I voted for a school levy, and want to share this 'Good News of the Kingdom' with my neighbors." I follow it up with, "Who's working with me or do we just do every other house until the block is done?"
The second time I did this, someone said, "You are interfering with our work, and if you don't stop I'm calling the police." I said, "This is my neighborhood, and I paid for the sidewalk you're standing on--they are public walks. I have every right to go from door-to-door as you. You're welcome to use my phone to call the police if you like--I'll dial the number for you." This was followed by the group going to their car.
I've done this 3 or 4 times. After awhile they just head back to the car when they see me coming out of the house. I usually walk up to the car and wish them well saying, "Come back again. I'll see you at the Coffee Shop" with a big smile on my face. Guess what; I actually started looking forward to a car load of JWs, which is much better than being ticked.
The local congregation moved to another area about a year ago and sold the building to a church group. I've only seen one couple working the neighborhood since then and was late for an appointment, so I missed getting in time that month. I wonder if I can give my experience at the next circuit assembly???
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
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Did you/Do you actually LIKE Field Service?
by LovesDubs ingod i hated it..every living breathing minute of it.
it was pure hell for me, and based on the pace i see the jws all over the world moving, they aint so fond of it neither.
the persecution that the jws feel they get is from irritated householders who know nothing about their religion except that they hit people over the head with it and then judge them because they dont like being hit over the head with it.
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JAVA
joel,
I have a 1000 field service stories, anyone want to buy me a beer and get me started.
I'll buy you a beer if you don't! Actually, it's fun sharing some of the crazy things that happened while we were out making $$$ for the Tower.
LovesDubs,
Like you, I hated field service. It always felt unnatural, forced, and ineffectual. The next time you see a group of JWs in service, watch how they act. They move ever so slowly, stand at not-at-home doors several minutes, gather in clusters chatting whenever possible. About the only time you'll see them move a normal pace is when they head towards the Coffee Shop to refresh their weary souls.
I have a few stories about doing field service when the Witnesses hit my neighborhood! It's a hoot, and a great way to liven up their morning drudgery. If anyone's interested, let me know.
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop