as i sat back thinking of some of the discussions i've had with witnesses over the years, one always stands out.
the issue of the trinity teaching, whereby father(jehovah), son(jesus), and holy spirit when combined equal one god.
a witness friend from work once said that it was an impossability, and was beyond human understanding.. i asked him what he thought we believed about the trinity, to which he responded with a math lesson.. 1 jehovah god + 1 jesus god + 1 holy spirit god = 3 gods, he went on to state that 1 + 1 + 1 can never equal 1 god, it always equals 3. to which i added a little math lesson i learned as a child.. 1 jehovah god x 1 jesus god x 1 holy spirit god can equal 1 almighty god.
Robert,
But I'll ask you this, what of unwritten history?
Written history seeks to record events that effect the larger society. Most happenings in life are "unwritten history," such as the Dayton Unitarian Fellowship (mostly atheists, and agnostics) feeding homeless people by the downtown library Wednesday evenings. Over time, we helped several homeless find a way back into the job market, etc.
What does this prove? It proves good people can do good things.
as i sat back thinking of some of the discussions i've had with witnesses over the years, one always stands out.
the issue of the trinity teaching, whereby father(jehovah), son(jesus), and holy spirit when combined equal one god.
a witness friend from work once said that it was an impossability, and was beyond human understanding.. i asked him what he thought we believed about the trinity, to which he responded with a math lesson.. 1 jehovah god + 1 jesus god + 1 holy spirit god = 3 gods, he went on to state that 1 + 1 + 1 can never equal 1 god, it always equals 3. to which i added a little math lesson i learned as a child.. 1 jehovah god x 1 jesus god x 1 holy spirit god can equal 1 almighty god.
Scorpion,
Humans make up history. History repeats itself.
Then you said,
World History is just a fragment of what has transpired through time that has been recorded.
Which is it? It's difficult discussing a topic when the boundaries keep changing.
just a thought on how the zealous witness would overcome the situation?
would they open homes for bible study?
or take the wait and see what happens next way out.
nojw,
The KH near me closed about a year ago, and sold the building to a church group. Isn't it interesting how the Tower sells Kingdom Halls to "false religion" if the Watchtower can make a buck, but would disfellowship a JW making a living cleaning the floors of "false religion!"
I remember standing in long lines for the new releases at assemblies, and by the time I got back to the seat, I was already disappointed with the content (no kidding). As a JW, it doesn't take long before the Tower's "new light" seems like a flashlight with weak batteries. The only positive thing I remember about assembly new releases, was getting up from uncomfortable seats and stretching while in line. Oh yes, the good old day . . .
i have two questions, mostly for commited christians, though i'm sure somehow, that others will reply too.. 1) does prayer change god or his mind?.
2) if not, why pray?.
i have my own opinion on the subject, but i may be adjusting my understanding of god.. have fun!.
Yerusalyim,
1) Does prayer change God or His mind?2) If not, why Pray?
1. If you change your mind, then I suggest God changes His mind, and vice versa.
2. If prayer doesn't change God's mind, then it can be seen as a useful form of meditation.
If prayer does change God's mind, does that mean God's first answer was not the best answer? If God was going to do something first, but changed His mind because of prayer or other influences, does that mean God is influenced by humans (sort of a political lobbyist arrangement)?
as i sat back thinking of some of the discussions i've had with witnesses over the years, one always stands out.
the issue of the trinity teaching, whereby father(jehovah), son(jesus), and holy spirit when combined equal one god.
a witness friend from work once said that it was an impossability, and was beyond human understanding.. i asked him what he thought we believed about the trinity, to which he responded with a math lesson.. 1 jehovah god + 1 jesus god + 1 holy spirit god = 3 gods, he went on to state that 1 + 1 + 1 can never equal 1 god, it always equals 3. to which i added a little math lesson i learned as a child.. 1 jehovah god x 1 jesus god x 1 holy spirit god can equal 1 almighty god.
Hello 7robert7,
We are but mere humans, and when we cant explain something in a manner that our limited thinking can understand, we become afraid.
The “We are but mere humans” statement is condescending (to me). I don’t know another species higher in the gene pool than humans. When humans can’t explain things they come up with theories, see which ones fly or crash, and build on past knowledge to continue the learning process. Yes, it’s easy to become afraid when things are not understood; this has created more gods than any single factor I can think of in human history. Perhaps a better mathematical equation on explaining the theology of god is:
more knowledge = less gods
I’m not an atheist. I just don’t believe in things that are not proven, but realize there is much to discover and prove. However, suggesting I’m “mere human,” with “limited thinking,” and “afraid,” thus needing some other person’s concept of god to point out the way, works for the Watchtower Society, but not me. I stopped buying into fear-based-human devalueation a long time ago, and discovered I wasn't so limited after all.
as i sat back thinking of some of the discussions i've had with witnesses over the years, one always stands out.
the issue of the trinity teaching, whereby father(jehovah), son(jesus), and holy spirit when combined equal one god.
a witness friend from work once said that it was an impossability, and was beyond human understanding.. i asked him what he thought we believed about the trinity, to which he responded with a math lesson.. 1 jehovah god + 1 jesus god + 1 holy spirit god = 3 gods, he went on to state that 1 + 1 + 1 can never equal 1 god, it always equals 3. to which i added a little math lesson i learned as a child.. 1 jehovah god x 1 jesus god x 1 holy spirit god can equal 1 almighty god.
Scorpion,
Humans make up history. History repeats itself. Humans dishonor themselves by not learning from the past.
Humans and natural events make up history. Sometimes history repeats itself, sometimes it doesn't. Humans can honor or dishonor themselves; there are many examples of both. Humans can also create concepts, such as the concept of god. World history points to the results of that concept. Please show examples in world history where the concept of god has brought people together, peace, love for others, etc.
jw convention programs 1969-1998: http://jwnet.org/conventions/.
jw in science fiction: http://www.adherents.com/lit/sf_jw.html
Osarsif,
Thanks for the walk through the House of Horrors! Just think, we spent what little money we had and precious vacation time attending these mind-numbing sale campaigns.
as i sat back thinking of some of the discussions i've had with witnesses over the years, one always stands out.
the issue of the trinity teaching, whereby father(jehovah), son(jesus), and holy spirit when combined equal one god.
a witness friend from work once said that it was an impossability, and was beyond human understanding.. i asked him what he thought we believed about the trinity, to which he responded with a math lesson.. 1 jehovah god + 1 jesus god + 1 holy spirit god = 3 gods, he went on to state that 1 + 1 + 1 can never equal 1 god, it always equals 3. to which i added a little math lesson i learned as a child.. 1 jehovah god x 1 jesus god x 1 holy spirit god can equal 1 almighty god.
God is a human dishonoring concept. I use world history to support that concept.
perhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
I found another interesting tidbit from the book to share about the so-called unity of the Witnesses. The paragraphs below are taken from pages 106-7:
The Testimony Card
As a result we have the origin of the familiar testimony card. The mental activity of the Kingdom Publisher had declined to such an extent that it became almost impossible for him to present his own message as he went from door to door. The result was the testimony card, prepared at headquarters. The Witness could present this card to the householder in explanation of the current book offer, as does the deaf mute in an effort to sell his wares.
This testimony card was a vicious thing with pathetic results. During World War II, when I accompanied conscientious objectors to examination boards where hearings were held to determine the validity of their claim of being ministers, I realized to my consternation that most of such Jonadabs were incapable of answering even the most rudimentary questions about the Bible. It was appalling to realize how little Jehovah’s Witnesses of the Jonadab class knew about the Scriptures and how much their knowledge was limited to things discussed in the Watchtower magazines and Society issued books. I was actually ashamed to sit there and listen to their hemming and hawing. One board member once said, “You mean to tell me that you are a minister and cannot tell me where to find this passage of Scripture?” “We do not use this method of preaching. We use a testimony card,” cockily replied the Jonadab.
That testimony card graphically showed the nadir to which a whole people had sunk who had once prided themselves in their Scriptural acumen and knowledge. Instead of being begotten “with the word of truth” (James 1:18), the Jonadabs were begotten of the Theocratic spirit of a mass organization, by seeds other than the word of God, mass seeds of Watch Tower books, booklets and magazines. … Since their viewpoint emanated entirely from the opinions and conclusions which they read in the Society’s publications, their brain became totally washed of any other ideas they might ever have loosely held about the Bible, themselves or other people. Their own thoughts were thus replaced by a narrow sphere or circumscribed area of thought, or as the Watch Tower put it, a “channel.” They became “Organization minded.” (pp. 106, 107)
