Posts by lovelylil2

221

Why do Ex-JWs start celebrating pagan Christmas?

by DubR in

hiya guys and gals.

im not trying to be self-righteous but i want to understand the thought process of someone who knows the origins of christmas, but starts celebrating it (putting up christmas tree, exchanging wrapped gifts; repeating merry christmas to everyone they see in the month of december)??

it seems very silly to me (imo) after knowing how and why christmas was created (to cater to pagans sun worship and convert to christianity)!!

lovelylil2

DubR,

I can certainly sympathize with your situation and understand why you are bitter against religion. Especially Christianity, since you had such a bad experience with it. Just for the record though, many of us are not hellfire enthusiasts, and we are very intelligent people from diverse backgrounds. Some of us know the bible is filled with allegories and is not all to be taken literal but still believe it has value. For instance as a Christian myself, I choose to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ which I have always found to be sound advice and contains great moral principles.

I am no different than someone following the teachings of Budha or Ghandi for that matter. Although I guess my faith (christianity) is more controversial to some then theirs.

I do hope you can get over your bitterness someday. Because as you probably know, It is not good for anyone to carry around emotional baggage. It may keep you from making friends with or accepting family members who are Christians and these people may have a positive affect on your life in many ways you do not want to miss out on. My point being, do not limit yourself by excluding this group of people by judgeing them all as stupid, naive, or fundamentalist in views. We are each very different. I am sure you know some fair minded, non judgemental Christians?

Everyone has to believe in something positive in their life. If you don't believe in God, then I hope you can believe in family, good friends, love and most of all believe in peace. Lilly

7

Attended a funeral for a JW

by Shepherd Book in

jw
friends

a friend of mine ended his life two weeks ago.

hadn't actually talked to him in years, as we lived over an hour from each other and, since i'm an ex-jw, i assumed he wouldn't want to talk to me anyway.

his mom called to tell me the sad news and to give me the time and location of the visitation, which i thought was a very kind thing to do considering she knows my 'status'.. anyway, on the way out of the funeral home, i came face-to-face with an elder from my former hall.

lovelylil2

So sorry to hear about your friend.

When my husband's brother died 10 years ago, my hubby and I were still active JW's. We drove down to CT for the funeral and there were many active JW's in attendence as well as my sister inlaws mother who was Df'd and a well known apostate in the area.

My husband and I knew she (the so-called apostate) would be there and both decided to not shun her at a funeral. We did not think it was appropriate or Christlike to do that, especially in front of "worldly" family members who already found the shunning unloving. Anyway, the "apostate" sat directly behind my husband and I, and after the funeral she asked us both if she could hug us and offer her condolences. We both said yes and hugged her back in return. You can imagine the looks we got! But we didn't care.

Later on, my sister inlaw told us that this act of kindness, on our part, had a profound affect on her mother. She was very bitter since being Df'd from the WT, branding all JWs as evil and judgemental. But she now had a different view of them and realized that she should not hate all Witnesses because many are good people.

Anyway, her daughter (my sister inlaw) was studying at the time (she was raised a JW but never got baptized), she was close to baptism but having doubts when my husband and I left the org. After a long conversation with her about why we left, she decided to postpone her baptisim. Its been 7 years now and she is still not associating with the Witnesses. Also as of this day not even one of our JW family members remain in the org. Peace, Lilly

221

Why do Ex-JWs start celebrating pagan Christmas?

by DubR in

hiya guys and gals.

im not trying to be self-righteous but i want to understand the thought process of someone who knows the origins of christmas, but starts celebrating it (putting up christmas tree, exchanging wrapped gifts; repeating merry christmas to everyone they see in the month of december)??

it seems very silly to me (imo) after knowing how and why christmas was created (to cater to pagans sun worship and convert to christianity)!!

lovelylil2

Good Q.

I did it because I always missed celebrating Christmas. I got very sad around this holiday not being able to participate. I was never 100% for not celebrating it like my husband was but did not want to make waves in my marriage.

After leaving the WT, I did some research on this holiday and found that Christians do not observe Christmas on Dec 25 because of the festival of Saturnalia but rather because it is the day that coincides with the Festival of Lights, a Jewish holiday. Since Christians base their beliefs on Judiasm and not pagan festivals, I have no guilt in observing Christmas anymore.

The other arguements the WT gives against Christmas were always weak anyway. Just because we are not told to observe this day does not mean we should not. Interestingly, the Jews observed the festival of lights (then called feast of dedication) when God had not directly commanded them to do so. And Jesus was even present in the temple area during this feast. (See John 10)

Once we left the WT, I was ready to observe Christmas right away but it took my husband 3 years to get to that point. Finally, my son asked his father if we could please have a Christmas tree and he caved on the issue. Now it our 6th Christmas and my husband helped me decorate the tree this year with not one once of guilt. Peace, Lilly

32

Trinity, Trinity, Trinity...

by Mazzie Brossmann in

can anyone tell me if there are names for the different variations in trinitarian belief?

or could any one point me to anything explaining what different chritians subscribe to in thier belief of the trinity?

i have googled my fingers off trying to find out, but all i come up with is the "oneness" doctrine of the penticostals.

lovelylil2

Tenebreux said;

It occurred to me recently that the whole "ransom sacrifice" thing actually makes a bit more sense in that context. If the Father and Son are two completely separate entities, you sort of think "WTF? How can a loving father send his son off to die like that?" But if Father and Son are manifestations of the same God, then it's a bit different - God paid the debt himself by sacrificing his own human nature. In that light it becomes a genuine act of love and not callousness.

Anyone else agree? Or do I just really need to get out more?

I say;

Agreed!

You said it very well. I cannot add any more to that. Peace, Lilly

2

JW on "Community"

by keyser soze in

has anyone watched this show?

on last night's episode, one of the characters was having a christmas party and everyone else in the group couldn't attend for religious reasons: one was jewish, one was muslim, one was buddhist(or so he claimed), one was atheist, and one, the black guy who was the high school football star said he was a jw.

it was the first mention of his character being a jw, and probably the last.

lovelylil2

Yeah I saw it. My husband and I thought it was hillarious because the supposed JW was a football star and said he wasn't allowed to drink. I can't tell you how many JW alchoholics we have seen over the years. I think you are correct it was probably just for the one episode. It was funny though. Lilly

160

My Wife is demanding that I stop coming to this board.

by garyneal in

okay, i am in a bit of a dilemma.

since i believe in honesty between marriage mates, i have been telling my wife about this board and my participation on it.

i feel it is only right so that she won't feel like i have anything to hide.

lovelylil2

gary,

You have a history with your wife and you love her. Like I said, you need to recognize she is reacting out of fear. She may very well think if you leave the org. you will leave her. Try to put yourself in her shoes. You do what you feel is right. No one here knows your wife and her good traits like you do.

for anyone telling gary he should leave his wife and calling her the B* word, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You are no better than the WT when they label people who disagree with them.

I stayed calm with my hubby who made demands to me but did not give in and I am glad I did. Things worked out well in the end. Good luck whatever happens I am sending thoughts of peace your way.........Lilly

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

lovelylil2

Sinis,

You are just fooling with me now. You are telling me it is found in LXXI:14 which is 71:14 and I already told you that it says no such thing. Have you read this in Enoch yourself or are you just copying someone else's information? I have the book in front of me and again, it says no such thing.

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

lovelylil2

sinis,

With all due respect, you sent me to a page where the book of Enoch is being reviewed as to its contexts and it gives someone's interpretation of Enoch I.

You started out saying that Enoch refers to himself as "son of man" in Enoch 71:14, and when I pulled out this book and looked it up, I found it says no such thing at Enoch 71:14.

Now you are copying over a statement made on some website giving the interpretation of another person. That is not what I asked you for. You said Enoch refers to himself as "son of man", and the writer of the article you copied also makes this statement. What I am asking you for, because the writer does not cite where to find this specific statement from Enoch, is do you know where in Enoch says he is the son of man? Please cite the specific text, for it is not in 71:14

I have the book itself and would like to look that up in the context to see if it is true. I have to go to work now but will be back later tonight or tomarrow. Thanks Lilly

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

lovelylil2

sinis,

I have the book of Enoch and have read it. Enoch makes reference to God's "anointed one" as being like "a son of man". Where does it say Enoch is the son of man? Can you cite the text so I can look it up? Thanks Lilly

13

Christmas Card Count?

by lovelylil2 in

jw
friends

i am getting writers cramp right now after addressing and writing messages in 40 cards so far.

most of my cards are going to family and friends, a few coworkers and neighbors.. how about you?

how many cards are you mailing this year?.

lovelylil2

Yeah aunt bee, I am with you. I HATE Christmas form letters. I find them very tacky. Much rather have a personal note. If the person doesn't know enough about me to write a personal message, are they really friends of mine?