Posts by Palimpsest

9

the bible, not for the frail hearted

by DaCheech in

my mom told me this the other day (she was born catholic, and converted to jwism in the late 30's):.

when she was a late teen she asked this question to her catholic priest uncle: "why doesn't the catholic church encourage us to read the bible"..... the man told my mom "if the general public read the bible they would be terrorized by scandalous stuff that only the clergy can sift through".. instead of taking this answer and leaving it alone, it started her quest to find the truth, and what religion would teach the bible.. as we know, i, through her came in this wreatched religion that hides behind the bible to scam us.

Palimpsest

Wow, DaCheech, do we have the same mother? It's exactly the same story. My mother's older brother was a Jesuit, and she herself almost became a Benedictine nun. Her being denied (in her view) full access to the Bible led to her conversion.

She always tells this story about how, in her childhood church, the big Bible on display was chained to the wall. To her, that symbolized them not wanting her to learn. To me, that just symbolized an understanding of the locals and their penchant for thievery, but what do I know. ;)

32

Nine year old baptized

by EmptyInside in

this weekend at the circuit assembly, (i stayed home, thank goodness), i heard a nine year -old girl was baptized.

and she seems a bit mature for her age, but hardly mature enough,in my opinion, to make such a choice on her own.

it seems to be a trend in our circuit right now.

Palimpsest

Could an adult, earlier baptized as a minor such as this, use their minor status as a way to sort of "annul" their baptism and avoid DA or DF?
Has it been tried? And with what results?

Can't be done, even if you plan to stay in. If you ask, the answer is that the screening process is so "rigorous" that there is no way to argue someone doesn't know what they're doing when they ask and agree to be baptized. You also can't have a do-over, so they don't want to rescind since it would mean they couldn't dunk you again if you decided to stay in or come back.

147

Did You Personally Know Any JWs That Were Sexually Molested By Other JWs?

by minimus in

i knew of a handful (which is too many) that were molested by a jehovah's witness.

it was not typical in my experience.

what about you???.

Palimpsest

I'm new here, so I won't jump into the conversation that's going on within the conversation, other than to say that both sides ring true in many ways and it doesn't need to be an either/or. There are reactions of all sorts, and neither is a guarantee.

To answer the original question, yes. It was certainly an issue within my congregation, and like many Witness girls, I had my own unpleasant experiences, to put it mildly.

The case that will always stand out to me the most is the one that most directly provoked my fade. In brief: A teenage friend in my congregation was being raped by her step-father, a ministerial servant. Rather than punishing him, the elders 1) disfellowshipped her for "false accusations," 2) disfellowshipped her mother for refusing to shun the daughter and also for seeking a divorce, 3) disfellowshipped her secret boyfriend within the congregation for allegedly having sex with her (which they hadn't done), 4) disfellowshipped his parents for allowing the sex-that-wasn't-sex to happen in their home (again, it wasn't true), 5) helped the MS step-father gain sole custody of his biological daughter (just entering puberty) from his now-ex by painting the mother as unfit, and then -- my favorite part -- 6) promoted the rapist to elder status a few months later. Moral of story, made loud and clear to everyone in the congregation: If you come forward or try to help a child come forward (which was the "sin" of her boyfriend and his family), you will be punished, but if you rape your step-daughter, we'll reward you with an elder position.

And then I got called into the back for daring to tell the elders that I didn't want the rapist to remain assigned to my bookstudy, which was held in my parents' home, since I was underage (16 or 17; can't fully remember now) and didn't want him having a key to my house anymore. I got the classic "watch your mouth, girl" speech that so many strong young women are familiar with growing up in that hell.

That was the final straw for me. Count me out.

15

For those of you attending college now (or at least recently have)....

by 2pink in

please remind me what the work load is like.

i went to college and took a few classes in my early 20s, and found it all very easy, but i had a lot less responsibility back then so i think my perception was skewed.

now i am 31, married, 2 kids, soon to be 3. i work very part time from home.

Palimpsest

I think it's all so subjective. At my community college, I got by without doing more than maybe ten hours of studying per week, and that includes my writing. When I transferred, I went to a top college doing an interdisciplinary major that was very philosophy-heavy, but since that type of reading and writing comes naturally for me, it wasn't bad at all; classmates, meanwhile, were regularly sleeping in the library. Now I'm looking now at being at an elite school next year for an accelerated Master's program, so between the ever-increasing expectations, grade deflation, and outside obligations, I fully expect to have my pathetic semblance of a social life slaughtered for me. That's going to be a new experience, so I'm trying to remind myself that it's not a race, and I can't be too obsessed with the timeline. If I can't speed it up, I can't speed it up -- it's not the end of my world.

I'd encourage you to take a similar approach. We're already behind -- an extra year or two isn't going to make that any different. In addition, based on the on-line classes I took at my community college, I can say that they involve a lot more work than usual courses since there's so much reading and writing. They're especially hard for people who have learning styles that are more suited for the classroom format, which is the vast majority of students. That means you're probably going to struggle a bit with it at first since you'll effectively be teaching yourself the material, so you need to leave some space for yourself to adjust to that without falling behind. Keep all of that in mind when putting together your short-term and long-term schedules. I wouldn't overwhelm myself my first semester if I were you, and actually, I'd consider doing that first semester as a part-time student.

But obviously, you know your circumstances, preferences, needs, and strengths better than I do! No matter what you do, I wish you the best. Just don't beat yourself up over being human if you find that you need to take a step back at some point. Plenty of us have done it. :)

21

JW therapist????

by maninthemiddle in

i read on a facebook thread some talking about going to a jw therapist, i didnt't know there were any.

i remember a young girl that da and my mother blamed it on a "worldly" therapist.

knowing what i know of her family it had to be the best decision of her life.. .

Palimpsest

There used to be one in Connecticut; I saw him briefly as a teenager. It was awful. It was like going to a backroom meeting with an elder (which he was) every week to correct you on the errors of your ways, except now you got to plunk down a $20 co-pay each time for the pleasure of it. And yes, he was trained through a regular Master's program and fully licensed and certified. But what Witness would ever be brave enough to report him?

He died a few years ago of cancer. Thankfully, I don't believe anyone has replaced him around here.

53

Anyone leave the org without the help of the net?

by Miss Chievous in

just wondering if anyone here left the org without ever looking at anything on the net and if so how did it happen for you?.

miss c.

Palimpsest

I stopped going in 2005 and stopped self-identifying as a Witness in 2006. I didn't post on any websites until a few months ago, and today is my first day posting here.

How did I do it? My brain cells finally began to fire once I found literature. Not even religious literature -- I'm talking about Camus, Kundera, Eliot, Joyce, O'Connor, Faulkner, etc. I started immersing myself in reading and thought, ignoring the admonitions of the elders to not waste time on such things and instead only read "Bible-based literature." It was only natural that I started getting really philosophical, even as a teenager. As my 19th birthday approached (I'm 24 now), I used the excuse of maintaining my health care insurance, which required full-time student status once you were past age 18, to enroll at my local community college. And then it just went from there. I went to my last Memorial, which was my last meeting of any kind, during my first semester of college. Within a year, I was a new person, the person that had always been lurking underneath.

It's amazing how, once you start thinking on even the most basic levels, all of that garbage they shovel into you just...goes away. You're both fading and getting stronger at the same time. It's a wonderful feeling. I will always treasure those first few years and months away, and the incredible feelings of satisfaction and stimulation that I got. There's nothing like realizing you have a mind and that you can do whatever you'd like with it.

14

"Old School" Elders

by xelder in

in the last few years that i served as an elder, and as i was discovering what the wts really was, the term "old school" would be used and it began to bother me more and more.

it was usually used to praise a person with a mean, unwaivering, dogmatism to an obselete policy.

a couple of times i would ask the person what he meant by the term.

Palimpsest

I think it's just a way for those "old school" elders to make themselves feel better about no one liking them. The only elders I ever liked, and the only ones most people ever liked, were the ones who were more human, more gentle, more sympathetic. We liked the ones who had sense of humor, who smiled periodically, who played softball with the kids at congregation picnics and got dirty with the rest of us on Hall cleaning days. I think it's more about behavior and personal interaction than it is about doctrine. The "old school" elders are the ones who are obsessed with policies and who forget that you can indeed both follow the rules and not be a complete jerk to other people simultaneously.

32

Nine year old baptized

by EmptyInside in

this weekend at the circuit assembly, (i stayed home, thank goodness), i heard a nine year -old girl was baptized.

and she seems a bit mature for her age, but hardly mature enough,in my opinion, to make such a choice on her own.

it seems to be a trend in our circuit right now.

Palimpsest

I was baptized when I was 11, and there was one girl (an elder's daughter) in my group who was a few months younger, but also 11. I later saw a 9-year-old girl get baptized at a district convention. And frankly, I don't know a single person who was baptized before age 16 or so who actually stayed in.

We all did it due to family pressure, and there was no real thought or choice involved. In my case, I only did it because my brother had died shortly before and my mother was obsessed with death and wouldn't stop talking about how she was afraid of me possibly not getting eternal life if I didn't stay in the Witnesses. That was my only reason for doing it, and everyone I knew who did it young had a story similar on some level. We were afraid and we were pressured -- no more, no less.

I remember when the elders came over our house for the questioning...I was woefully underprepared and hadn't even prayed on it yet like they tell you, so I ran up to my room, kneeled at my bed, said a quick one asking Jehovah to get me through the questions, and then went back downstairs. It all ended up being pointless, because they were so smitten with the idea of a young one being baptized that they basically fed me the answers. To this day, I laugh when I think about what a sham it all was.

If they didn't want children getting baptized, they wouldn't make such a big deal about always announcing the age of the youngest or highlighting them on stage with experiences. Simple as that.

11

Ladies, MS or Elders?

by asilentone in

ladies, while you were in the org, did you wish to be ms or elder?

has any conversation take place between jw ladies about this issue ?.

Palimpsest

I can't say I ever thought much about it, though when I was young, I remember being disappointed that my brother got to help with the microphones and I didn't. I've always been a helper and an organizer, and I did feel like I missed out on some of the "fun" (to me) tasks like working behind the counter or doing anything other than scrubbing urinals at conventions. (Oh, how I hated the cleaning...) And it did bother me that I couldn't read at book study, especially on nights when we only had one elder and no MS present (it was a very small, female-dominated group).

But in terms of wanting a formal position with a title? No, I didn't. I just wanted to be able to pick how I participated, and to be able to do some of the tasks that were available.

18

Is the Harvest Inn (Patterson NY) owned by a Witness?

by POs Son in

jw
friends

i was looking at reviews on www.tripadvisor.com and saw that the harvest inn near patterson is highly rated (though clearly a lower end mo-tel).

one writer even commented at how nice it is to wake up to kingdom melodies in the morning there.. .

comments lead me to believe that the place is jw owned and primarily caters to visitors of the farms and bus tours of same.. .

Palimpsest

Sorry to drag up an old post, but I just found this...

Yes, the Harvest Inn is owned by Witnesses, but not the WTBTS. I've stayed there multiple times. There is also a restaurant near the premises that's owned by Witnesses, and they encourage you to have your meals there if you're not eating at Patterson/Walkill. They also sell all of the usual Witness paraphranelia -- big-eyed notecards/magnets, book covers, "New York" souvenirs that are all related to the WTBTS facilities in the area, etc. -- in their gift shop. The rooms have NWTs in the nightstands (no Gideons welcome, naturally!), and there are all sorts of other reminders scattered around. Although they are obviously open to anyone, the rooms book well in advance by bus tour groups, and they also don't do secular advertising, so it's really just Witnesses there. And no, there's no HBO. ;)

To be honest, even though I haven't set foot in a hall since the 2005 Memorial, I'd probably stay there again if I were in the area for something else. It's very clean (as you'd expect), the service is good, and the prices are reasonable. Just don't wear an apostate badge or anything. ;)