Posts by Awen

98

New Light

by Spade in

i've noticed quite a few dissidents of jehovah's organization that have left with some fixation on jehovah's witnesses concept of new light.

i really don't understand.

the antiquity of religion may be historically educational, but not always personally illuminating.

@ Spade What I have seen so far is an attempt to justify the actions of the Watchtower Society through numerous quotes from their publications. What I have NOT seen from you is scripture (other than Proverbs not being shown in it's full context) that backs up your claim that the WTS has the God given right to change their doctrine at will and give no explanation for it.

To answer your earlier question, yes the Society needs to give a thorough explanation as to how they arrived at their current viewpoint in relation to the old one, aka New Light vs Old Light. It would go a long way to reassuring the rank and file JW's that the Governing Body knows what it's talking about.

Since the Society supposedly represent God, are there any scriptures that caution God's worshippers against false teachings?

Rather than indicate that doctrine would get brighter or change the Bible warns against anyone that makes false predictions.

1 John 4:1 "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world."

Deut. 18:20-22 "However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it."

Galatians 1:8, 9 "But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed."

Pay Attention to Yourself and to All The Flock p.13 tells us;

"Today, Jehovah provides instruction by means of "the faithful steward."

Why then is it that when the Watchtower Governing Body relies on Jehovah they have regularly been wrong? How can they pray for Holy Spirit on a decision, publish it in the Watchtower, say it is to be accepted as the 'voice of God', and then later discard it as incorrect?

Peace,

Awen

40

how important was the hope of the paradise to you? and what do you hope in now?

by Curtains in

jw
friends

many become and remain witnesses because of the hope of living in a paradise earth.

for those who have left how did you cope with the loss of this hope?

or do you still have this hope?.

Awen

Peace

At first the idea of a Paradise sounded like a good idea. One day I had an epiphany about it.

Matthew 16:25-" For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it."

If I truly loved God, then I shouldn't be doing his service with the idea of gaining a reward at the end. I thought of the whole 1975 fiasco and although I could understand why many people left, I had a serious problem with it. They were serving God with a time limit in mind. If things didn't happen within a certain amount of time, then they ended up leaving God. The thing is, this wasn't God's fault, but the WTS' fault for putting the idea in people's mind in the first place. Jesus himself said that no one knew the date for his return (except God) and so having some sort of time limit in mind was a waste of time and not done out of a sincere heart.

I realized that my worship shouldn't be based upon a reward at the end, but that just following the principles in the Bible, my life could be better now. In my opinion, to serve God with the idea of getting something from Him would prove Satan correct (the whole issue with Job comes to mind in that Job only served God because of how blessed he was, take those blessings away and see what happened). I didn't want to feel like a camel being rode across the desert with some yahoo hanging a carrot from a stick in front of my face.

My reasons for serving God shouldn't be the idea of a reward at the end, but it should be something based upon love. So that's how I started to practice my faith and still do to this day. Personally I don't care about a heavenly or earthly paradise. I care about what's going on now. There's too much unknown stuff concerning the Paradise for me to worry overmuch about it.

Peace,

Awen

15

2 Witnesses spoken of in Revelation

by Kimberly090 in

hey everyone!.

i was looking on facebook and came across a page called facebook.com/wefoundthem and they were speaking about the 2 witnesses.

i have seen a little bit about a witness in the watchtower but not much.

Awen

I second that.

29

Do U sleep with your animal? Enjoy the bacteria!

by chrisjoel in

uc researcher warns against kissing pets and sharing bed with themby cynthia hubert sacramento beeposted: 01/26/2011 05:34:34 am pstupdated: 01/26/2011 05:34:35 am pst .

they give you joy.

they give you loyalty.

Awen

May You have Peace:

What about kissing your wife/husband, or your girlfriend/boyfriend or anyone else of the opposite sex?

Where is the study on the possibility of getting a disease from them through kissing?

Consider the promiscuity of some many people in the world and the danger is staggering.

I wonder what scientists would call this disease?

Oh I know!

COOTIES!!

Peace,

Awen

204

Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

by Terry in

paul's letters practically invent christianity.. the gospels trickled in after him.. paul never walked with jesus and yet explains him.. never a quote from the master at all.. yet, paul is such a maven.. if jesus couldn't be bothered to actually reveal what he was all about to his apostles with whom he ate, drank, spoke and slept---why this persecutor, saul?.

the apostles heard every word jesus spoke and were willing to die for him.. paul didn't--yet--miraculously explained every detail of the entire history of god's purpose including his messiah.. .

can anybody provide a non-gimmick answer?.

Awen

Peace:

Please don't think for a minute that I'm in favor of organized religion. Quite the opposite really. The Christians in the 1st Century had the right idea, meeting at personal homes to encourage one another (or for safety) and pretty much just living their lives without bothering anyone. I don't personally believe that religion needs the structure that is in place today. Many people have taken the words of all the Apostles and used them to their own ends, blatantly ignoring how things were done in the 1st century or making stuff up to support their own ends.

As for believing in the Bible. When I first got out of the JW's I didn't stay a Christian as I tended to compare every denomination against the JW's. For a decade I stopped practicing Christianity altogether, but eventually I came back. I realized my problem wasn't with God, but with his followers. His followers had manipulated the Bible for their own ends and even though I read the Bible and compared what it said to those who tried to interpret it, what I found was I didn't need anyone to interpret it for me. I let my pride go and finally after not praying for so long, asked for forgiveness and insight.

I personally feel that the best way to come to know God is first by not reading the Bible. Go outside, look around, investigate evolution, look at other paths and see what they have to offer. I did this and I found by and large that the "proof" of evolution is no more a fact than what people choose to believe. The Radio Carbon 14 dating that scientists love to use is somewhat flawed, considering it takes an estimated amount of time (no one really knows as no one has lived long enough to witness the event) for an isotope of carbon to break down. There are holes in the theory of evolution say some and some agree it's completely factual.

Some quantum mechanics mathematicians will swear up and down that quantum mechanics supports the idea of intelligent design, whereas others say it doesn't.

All in all it comes down to what you believe.

For myself I came to the realization that I didn't need religion to believe in a Creator. I know enough about engineering, mathematics and such to know that evolution isn't correct (that is my own opinion and not a commentary on what anyone else thinks) and that life didn't happen by chance, nor that life is continually evolving. Mutation and adaption isn't evolution. Mutation is the physical change an animal undergoes, while still remaining in the same species. Adaptation is an animal doing likewise, although the process is less than perfect. evolution by definition is one animal changing into a completely different animal. A fish evolving into a human because it decided somehow it wanted to. For thousands of years humans have wanted to fly, yet not a one of us have ever begun to grow wings.

I'm not condemning anyone else's beliefs. We all have free will to choose what is best for ourselves. My goal is to share what I know. If someone accepts it, that's fine. If they don't, that is fine with me also. It is not my intention to convert anyone or lord my knowledge (or perceived knowledge) or anyone else. I can't make you (nor would I try) believe something you don't want to believe. I share what I know and leave it at that, this is why when I see that a discussion is going nowhere, I no longer comment.

I have very different views from the WTS. I believe that once someone comes to a knowledge of God and his son Jesus, they can throw their Bibles away, as the Bible is meant only to bring a person to them. Once they have what they need, a tutor is no longer required. I keep mine simply to refresh my memory. I talk about the Bible only in the interests of sharing what I believe to be true. If you don't agree, it's your choice. I'm not trying to force my opinions upon anyone.

Peace Be With You,

Awen

204

Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

by Terry in

paul's letters practically invent christianity.. the gospels trickled in after him.. paul never walked with jesus and yet explains him.. never a quote from the master at all.. yet, paul is such a maven.. if jesus couldn't be bothered to actually reveal what he was all about to his apostles with whom he ate, drank, spoke and slept---why this persecutor, saul?.

the apostles heard every word jesus spoke and were willing to die for him.. paul didn't--yet--miraculously explained every detail of the entire history of god's purpose including his messiah.. .

can anybody provide a non-gimmick answer?.

Awen

Pistoff wrote:

"But there is no evidence he is risen, of course, and the apologists for Paul's failed expectation of the return stretch over 2000 years."

May You Have Peace:

There is also no evidence (outside of Christian writings) that he is not not risen. That is to say, if you believe the Bible and what is taught therein, then the commentaries of Jesus being tried, executed and resurrected are all moot. Faith fills in the gaps. Personally I'm a man more of reason than faith (much like Paul) but I do have faith that Jesus was a real person.

Why? It comes down to several things. First Paul and the other Apostles endured a lot of hardship in the name of someone whom in their opinion had been tried, executed and resurrected. Would they be willing to do this if any of them had thought for the merest second that Jesus had not been raised from the dead? Some might say they did it for the glory and money they could make. The thing is, all the Apostles (except for Paul) were for the most part "unlettered and ordinary" having no experience in the Rabbinical schools and having received no training therein. They also had their own secular jobs (which they left off from to follow and preach about Christ). This seems to me to be a very big thing to give up in the name of someone who's identity is suspect. There had to be overwhelming evidence given by Jesus to prove his identity (the information just isn't supplied in the Gospels). I find many times that what the Bible doesn't say regarding a matter sometimes says more about a subject than what it does say. The evidence is in the details, or sometimes the lack thereof. A Zen saying would be "All the evidence is here except the parts that are missing." So an examination of what is missing usually yields the answer. As I have said Before, the Bible is for THINKING Christians. If you want to take it at face value, then it can be done. But there is so much more information to be had if you dwell upon what has been said and ask the Holy Spirit for insight.

Many of the Apostles/disciples and followers of Christ endured great hardships in his name. How many of us have endured the same hardships because of our beliefs? The first century Christians were very different than ourselves. Their churches were scattered all over the place and they rarely had others coming around to instruct them. The Holy Spirit however remedied this problem. If we are to believe that people spoke in foreign tongues without having first learned them, healed the sick, resurrected the dead, or uttered prophecys often then those acts themselves back up the event of Jesus' resurrection. Without the resurrection, there would have been no outpouring of Holy Spirit at Pentecost or at any time thereafter.

So the problem here is that the works of Jesus, the apostles and all those spoken about in the New Testament either have to be taken as real events or there was a great conspiracy afoot to mislead future generations. For what purpose? What would these ones have to gain considering they would all be dead by the time the writings passed to us? If none of these events ocurred then everything that was endured by first century Christians and all Christians afterwards was a complete waste of time and has no meaning for us today.

However if they did in fact occur then those things have great meaning to all of humankind.

It seems very unlikely that the Bible writers would have gone through so much hardships, the writing down of dates of secular ocurrences, the observation and recording of what was happening around them for the sake of a person of fiction.

No my friends, the truth is they went through all these things because they wanted to make sure that the truth as they knew it was recorded for future generations so that we too might have faith in the works of our Lord Jesus Christ and through understanding what is required of us, we might be saved.

Peace be With You,

Awen

204

Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

by Terry in

paul's letters practically invent christianity.. the gospels trickled in after him.. paul never walked with jesus and yet explains him.. never a quote from the master at all.. yet, paul is such a maven.. if jesus couldn't be bothered to actually reveal what he was all about to his apostles with whom he ate, drank, spoke and slept---why this persecutor, saul?.

the apostles heard every word jesus spoke and were willing to die for him.. paul didn't--yet--miraculously explained every detail of the entire history of god's purpose including his messiah.. .

can anybody provide a non-gimmick answer?.

Awen

Pistoff said:
What Jesus is said to have said was not determined until AFTER Paul wrote his authentic letters.

That is the more likely scenario.

The really disturbing fact for most christians:

Paul NEVER mentions Jesus' miracles; never.

WHY not?

It certainly must be that he had never heard of them. Think about what that means; the miracles of Jesus were not 'known' until after Paul wrote his letters.

Why?

Peace be with you:

I checked the Bible that I have (The New Living Translation) and at the beginning of each book it gives the author, dates written and a brief summary of the book.

For the most part Paul's letter were written BEFORE the synoptic Gospels. So what you stated about Paul not knowing what Jesus did holds true. I have read several secular books on the topic of Christianity and they point out that there were many different groups that identified themselves as "Christians" but their teachings had a wide variance in themes. So it's likely the remaning Apostles wrote down the Gospels so that others could be sure once and for all who the historical Jesus was and what he taught, did and said could be clear. Most of Paul's letters were written before 65 AD (which is the dates given for the four Gospels) and a few being written afterwards. It's the ones written afterwards where we see a change in the writings. If the Apostles had recorded the life of Jesus when it occurred or immediately afterwards there would be a lot less confusion in the world today, however for some reason they didn't feel impelled to do so.

So it seems to me that Paul was simply working with what he had, namely the direction of the Holy Spirit and the oral teachings of Christ that had been passed along to him. He could do little else.

Peace Be With You,

Awen

54

The demons are sex perverts according to the March 15th WT

by life is to short in

ok i finished listening to the stupid wt today while driving to work.

i got so mad listening that i truly cannot do it while i drive.

it is worse then talking on a cell phone as it just makes my blood boil.. the study article on page 24 and 25 is talking about satan and the demons.

Awen

May you have Peace,

I found this very interesting website while surfing the internet. It's a scientific paper discussing the Global Flood and how it occurred.

It does discuss the "canopy of water" and pretty much dismisses it as being the overall source of the Flood waters. It does however give reasonable arguements as to where the water came from and where it is today.

http://www.ldolphin.org/flood.shtml

Peace be with you,

Awen

51

Help: Re: Letter to elders NOT to disfellowship otherwise legal action will be taken

by LouBelle in

hello there everyone.

i remember reading a while back about someone on here ( i think) that wrote a letter to the body of elders & headoffice that they should not take any action to disfellowship them as they would be distancing them from friends and relatives and would proceed to take legal action if the body of elders went ahead.. if anyone has that link or can point me in the right direction i'd appreciate that..

Awen

Very odd. I could go to the webpage with Google Chrome and see the links, but when I clicked on them the page won't load. I just get a blank page.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Peace,

Awen

51

Help: Re: Letter to elders NOT to disfellowship otherwise legal action will be taken

by LouBelle in

hello there everyone.

i remember reading a while back about someone on here ( i think) that wrote a letter to the body of elders & headoffice that they should not take any action to disfellowship them as they would be distancing them from friends and relatives and would proceed to take legal action if the body of elders went ahead.. if anyone has that link or can point me in the right direction i'd appreciate that..

Awen

May you have peace:

The page can be viewed just fine with Google Chrome. It crashes in Firefox.

here's the link:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/best-of/78540/1/The-Best-of-Letters-to-family-and-elders-WTS

Peace,

Awen

edit: I don't know how to insert links, so you'll have to copy and paste.