Posts by Awen

39

2 questions for JW's from a Christian

by solafide in

1. what is the most fundamental reason you do not accept the roman catholic church to be the one true institution of god?.

2. what is the most fundamental reason that you accept your organization to be the one true organization of god?.

just curious, please let me know :).

Awen

I do not believe the RCC is the one true faith because their doctrines can easily be misproven by simple Biblical research and they accept other religions.

I do however believe the JW ARE God's people, at least in the sense of a wayward nation that eventually becomes or has become the False Prophet and is eventually destroyed (like the Jewish nation was God's people and were also destroyed for their disobediance). The RCC doesn't get involved in prophecy, whereas the JW's known for it.

The prophecies that JW's direct towards Christendom are actually directed towards themselves because like the Jewish nation-state, they believe themselves to be God's only true people and so actually line themselves up for destruction according to Revelation.

Even though I consider them to be God's wayward people, I left before the call goes out to "flee to the mountains" as Jesus said.

I recently considered going thru the RCIA, to convert to Catholicism, as I see it as the lesser of two evils. Even though the RCC has committed atrocities, their admitting their errors and at least trying to make up for them speaks highly of them. The JW's have no such scruples. I've even considered trying to enter the Priesthood, to further my own education of Christianity's past and to help others in a way I could have never accomplished as a JW. The RCC has charities that to me do the very thing Jesus said was more important than preaching, namely to care for widows and fatherless boys.

Off Topic:

I have thought of going back to help others leave and am still on the fence regarding this. Because of my mindset I will never pretend to believe what the WTS teaches , just to get reinstated. I want others to know I am Apostate (like Jesus and the Apostles were when in came to Judaism) and will therefore come to me and ask questions.

To my knowledge there currently exists no rule to keep people from attending the meetings. According to the WTS own words, all meetings are open to the public, so being part of said public, I could attend if I wanted. I would give encouragment to the other disfellowshipped ones who feel abandoned by their peers and comfort them with the hope of approval by God, despite the WTS ' proclamation that Disfellowshipped ones have no hope at Armageddon. I would point out the 3 laws necessary for salvation. Love Yahweh your God with everything you possess, Love your neighbor as yourself and have faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus and all that pertains to it. Field Service, commenting at meetings, being "approved" by imperfect men who cannot read hearts as God can means absolutely nothing.

I would remind them that they dedicated themselves to God and Jesus and not to some man-made organization who consistently utters false prophecy and who treats the flock the same as the Pharisees in Jesus' time.

edited for spelling mistakes

43

Which coffee person are you?

by Newborn in

jw
friends

espresso (single or double)?capuccino?latte?latte macchiato?american coffee?coffee with flavour?black coffee with milk or sugar?i am definately a latte person!!

gotta have one each morning.. i regret we don't have starbucks in sweden.

/newby.

Awen

Maxwell House in the prepackaged filter. ---Nothing to add, nothing to take away.

Splenda Sweetener--It's derived from natural sweetness but is man made.

Coffee Mate Hazelnut Creamer. ---Smooth tasting but still a Nut.

I think this is how most JW's view me as well.

Coincidence? I think not.

22

How is your life affected by the Jehovah's Witness religion now?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

whether you are new 'out' of the org or you have been out for a number of years, how does the org affect your life at the moment?.

how do you feel about the way the religion influences your life at the moment, even in the smallest ways?.

thanks.. please state how long you have been away from the religion if possible.. .

Awen

Been out for 10 years now, disciplined back in 1999. Told the Elders I didn't think the WTS had the truth and I needed to go out into the world and look for it to be sure. Since I was baptised at age 19, I felt I had not considered enough options and there were too many questions the WTS (God's spirit directed organization,) couldn't seem to answer. So I was disfellowshipped at my own request. Yes, I asked them to do so and they were happy to oblige.

Went out, got involved in Paganism, Buddhism, you name it, I probably studied or participated in it. Found no hope in the world or at least nothing comparable to what i thought the WTS offered.

Went back, started partaking at the memorial (though still disfellowshipped) and found my spine. Started investigating the WTS' past history, old light, looked into sites such as e-watchman, this one and many others, connected the dots.

Now I enjoy a very healthy relationship with God and his Son. I have quality friends who ask about me when they do not hear from me. People older than me often seek my advice.

It feels good to be wanted for something other than my field service report.

Of course I gain a lil bit of wicked glee by going to the Memorial and partaking of the emblems (not because of the way JW's view the heavenly calling) but because I believe everyone has the potential for a heavenly life. Many are called but few are chosen. Which means to me, that of the ones called who are not chosen for heaven are still eligible for life on a cleansed earth.

So they may think I partake because I consider myself called as one of the 144k, but in reality it's because Jesus commanded ALL his followers to celebrate his death in this way and the JW's have twisted this celebration into a "look at me" contest. Kinda like a spiritual beauty pageant.

I communicate with other XJW's and try to help them by sharing my knowledge and experience.

We have all been given a gift, experience, which came with a heavy price. But I do not want to be like the man who buried his master's wealth in the field and had nothing to offer when he returned. It might not be five-fold, but it won't be nothing either.

Also I once left my entire family behind for JW's. Jesus said that his words would alienate brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children: entire families. Which is an oft-qouted reason JW's give as proof of their religion. Now I have gone the opposite way and lost my JW family for Jesus' truth. If it was worth it before, how can it not be worth it again?

31

Trying to annul your baptism, WT says forget about it.

by cattails in

jw
friends

the koolaid wt issue for february has an interesting article about when your baptism can be considered invalid.but the main thrust of the article is aimed at making it super clear that if you were present at your bapt.

talk and answered the two questions then forget about it, elders are put on notice to not let anyone off the hook.but... if you were committing a serious sin and hid it at the time of your baptism, then it was invalid, and point is, they'd still announce you not being "one of j.w.s" so if you plead your case to walk away from the wt saying you didn't know what you were getting into, it will do no good, but it will be grounds for an announcement.just ol' mother wt tightening up loose ends.

Awen

It always gets me that the WTS calls is "God's spirit-directed organization" implying everything they say and do has been told to them by God. Yet in the 1988 version of "Revelation-It'sGrand Climax At Hand" I belive in chapter 1 or 2, under box heading "Interpreting The Scriptures", the WTS says they are not infallible and that mistakes are made because essentially they do not have the same spirit that the Apostle had.

So which is it?

Are they spirit directed or not?

The Bible writers were spirit directed, the different things they wrote harmonized perfectly with things written by others many thousands of years later. Yet the WTS writings can contradict writings made only a few years or in some cases a few months apart.

It seems that when they want people to listen and obey them, the are spirit directed, yet when a mistake (be it prophetical or whatever else) is made, they are not.

Why can the rank and file JW's not see this?

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

Awen

When the word god is used, it's to denote a position. In the Bible, as noted previously, anyone could be referrred to as god. Notice when this happens, the text ALWAYS uses the lower case "g" and the upper case is ALWAYS used in connection with Yahweh.

In Arabic, "Allah" simply means God, it's not a name, just a title. Satan is referred to a "the god of this system of things". The angels have at times been referred to as gods. The definition of god is "mighty person", nothing more.

Yehoshua (Jesus) is referred to as the Word and the Word was created by God and thru the Word all other things were created.

To illustrate:

You have a child and you teach him the skill of carpentry. You guide his hands, show him how to measure and cut. How to shape wood with his hands etc.

Now, does that mean because your child was born from your seed that his skill immediately equals your own? By being God's apprentice (Jesus even references this) Jesus learned from the Master himself.

If they were equal, Jesus would already have possessed this knowledge as trinitarians suggest and that would make Jesus a liar. So who do you believe the words of a man (Jeremiah 10:23) or the words of a "god"?

Jesus admitted that there are things that the Father knows that he does not. When in duress, he also prayed to God to "remove this cup from me, if it was his will", showing the power and authority of that decision rested soley with God. The name of God, YHWH, means literally, "he causes to become" or "I shall cause to be what I shall cause to be", showing His position as Master Carpenter of the Universe.

The name Jesus, transliterated from Aramaic and or Hebrew has several meanings, most importantly "YHWH rescues" or "YHWH delivers" showing yet again a subordinate relationship, one dependent upon the will and purpose of the other. One might argue that the "YHWH delivers" is referring to Jesus as YHWH, but the second part of the name (Christ) seems to show otherwise.

Christ is derived from the Greek "Christos" (meaning Anointed One) which is itself derived from the Hebrew "Messiah" which is a king anointed at God's direction or approval". Also showing one sent by another.

Jesus says he was borne from God, yet YHWH says he always existed. Jesus is referred to as the "Firstborn of All Creation", YHWH as the Alpha and the Omega, no beginning, no end. Unlike Jesus, God cannot die and he wasn't borne (or created out of another being).

Jesus said "he that has seen me has seen the Father" denotes that since their relationship is so intimate, Jesus is the perfect reflection of God. When Moses asked to see the face of God, YHWH replied that no man could see his face and yet live. Were Jesus to in fact be God, then this verse would be false.

So despite what trinitarians have tried to do, the cultural references and etymology of names (which cannot be changed at the whim of a scribe copying text or by the stroke of a clergyman's pen) hold the real truth as to the nature of God and Jesus.

Despite the above posters assertion that to be understood, the Bible must be poured over and searched deeply for more meaning than what the surface text seems to indicate, when one considers the people the Bible was written by and for, this assertion doesn't hold much water. The Bible is throught provoking, but not so complex that a mere Sheperd Boy (such as David) couldn't understand it. It's this way purposely, so that no one person or organization becomes the sole repository of the knowledge the Bible and sets themself up as the sole interpreter of it. Unfortunately this is exactly what has happened.

It has counseled billions over the ages and many people from the most educated theologist to the least undereducated field worker has found comfort and knowledge within it's pages.

22

The 'other sheep' - Isn't it so obvious that Jesus is talking about gentiles?

by jambon1 in

am i being silly or do some other religions have a different understanding of who the 'other sheep' are?.

when i was a jw, i could see so clearly that this group is the gentiles.

that is, of course, reading the text 'in context', rather than simply placing it in a flakey jw leaflet.. why can jehovahs witnesses not see that they are so wrong on this point?.

Awen

In the preceeding text Jesus makes reference to the intimate relationship between himself, his sheep and his father. -John 10:15

He then speaks of "other sheep" which are not of this fold, showing they are not in this intimate relationship. Since his message was first brought to the "Lost Sheep of Israel",one could rightly assume he meant the Gentiles were the recipients of the message after his Messiahship was rejected by the majority of Jews.

Since I have been out of the Org for a decade, perhaps you could explain the JW viewpoint on this matter and exactly what you are trying to say?

12

Was Lot a Total Ignoramus?

by cameo-d in

if this town of sodom was *supposedly* all homosexuals..... why would lot throw his virgin daughters out to them when the crowd came to his house?.

were these girls ugly and needed help with make-up or finding their colors?.

why would lot think that homosexuals would be happy having the company of his virgin daughters?.

Awen

According to Arabic Tradition, a person with guests would sooner allow his entire household to be murdered that to allow harm to come to those guests. Consider that in the text his daughters did not question Lot's motives nor try to rebel against what he said. They understood the custom and what was at stake. Many people in many lands still hold to traditions such as these. So do not ascribe evil to a culture simply because you do not understand it. More wars and hate has been caused by people being ignorant of other's customs and just assuming we all think alike.

16

God will end all suffering! when?how? Dec 1/09 wt

by bobld in

over 2,600 years ago habakkuk asked god that q.what does the wt have to about this q.

"god really cares how we know.

do you like good food?

Awen

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

To me, that is in essence why God allows sufferering. The Book of Job illustrates that although Job thought he was wise and that he could question God's motives, God's response showed us that there is a huge gulf that exists between Himself and ourselves. For years I struggled with this very problem and could never understand it, until I thought of something.

If you shelter your children from every adversity that comes along will they appreciate you for it or resent you?

Any parent can answer this easily. The children will chafe under your protection and eventually rebel.

So God's solution?

Limit the protection, add abundant evidence of His existence, instill a yearning inside each of of us to seek Him out so that we can eventually arrive at the conclusion that if he did protect us from everything, we would be ungrateful.

So when He does eventually restore order, we can look back on how things were and how things are with love that is pure and full of wisdom. Wisdom that tells us that if we were protected from all hardships, we would be robots, with no creativity. We wouldn't appreciate all that He has done for us because we wouldn't have anything to compare it to.

Also how are we not to know that a person stepping in to help isn't being moved by God to do so? Consider that we hear in the news of people watching others doing nothing while someone is beaten or raped until one brave person steps in and calls the police or personally intervenes.

God is alive and lives inside each one of us. You just have to stop and listen. Then you tell others what you "heard" by helping them when they need it and holding back when they need to learn for themselves.

28

Santa Claus

by Joshnaz in

jw
friends

i was thinking about if i should start telling my 2 year old about santa claus.

after realizing that i've been lied to my whole life from all the jw bullcrap should i lie to my child about santa claus?

do you think its ok to say, "be good or santa wont bring you any toys this christmas.

Awen

When I was a child my parents perpetuated the myth of Santa. I can recall my Dad asking me if I could hear the reindeer's hooves on the roof or my mom promising that I wouldn't get gifts if I wasn't good, etc. When I was in 5th grade, my teacher, Ms Hearst (I recall her name because of this) told the entire class there was/is no Santa Claus. I went home and told my mom what she said and my mom promptly got into the car and drove to my school and cussed the teacher out, telling her in essence that HER JOB was to teach me academics, not to get involved in holiday beliefs and traditions of her pupil's family.

My uncles often teased me about believing in Santa and I developed a complex about it. Were my parents telling me the truth or was everyone else in on something and my parents were too worried to tell me?

Eventually I learned the truth of the matter after my parents learned of the teasing. They sat me down and told me. After which I asked how could they condone lying to me, just to perpetuate this and didn't they understand how foolish they made me look to everyone else? (Yes I actually spoke that way as a child) Also since they had always told me that lying was wrong and if I did it I was punished, then what punishment were they going to impose upon themselves?

Obviously they didn't see it the same way although they admitted that they had lied and that lying in general is wrong. They tried to explain that lying can be justified if it serves a noble purpose and the personae of Santa Claus is justified.

Although I understood what they meant, my trust in my parents was shattered and for many years afterwards when something came up that I didn't quite grasp or that seemed out of sorts I would ask if this was a Santa Claus type of thing.

I think this incident helped shape who I became later in life, as I have always been interested in Truth and Justice and in my opinion truth should always be upheld, despite what ills may come our way from seeking and upholding it.

So to recap, I never fully trusted my parents again and for myself I decided that when I had children I would not perpetuate the myth, but would give the historical background of Santa Claus and relate how people still celebrate this person's generosity thru the holiday by stories and fables designed to instill generosity towards one another. However my children receiving gifts is not dependent upon their behavior but rather my love for them and Santa Claus for many is an expression of that love and also the spirit of giving gifts anonymously, so that the focus is on the one that receives, rather than the ones that gives.

Tis better to give than receive.

3

Whom

by John Doe in

jw
friends

do you miss?.

Awen

Dwight R. Causey. One of the "annointed" that I knew and who still thinks that although the WTS society is incorrect on a great many things, that the GB is open to criticism and will listen to what the "other" annointed have to say. History has shown otherwise.