I stopped believing in a personal God for a while and embraced Deism for while until I ran across this site which uses science to back up it's claims. The arguments are well researched and reasoned. The authors also are learned men and not just janitors given their opinion without evidence to back it up.
Posts by Awen
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21Why do you Still believe in a god?
by mrbunyrabit inif i may ask, for those on this site, who still believe in a god in their own way... why do you still believe in a god?.
since every thing in the bible can be shot down with reason, why would you still believe in a god?.
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38
"Evidently" the New Watchtower Propoganda Buzzword is "Clearly"
by LostGeneration inwe have seen hundreds of examples of where the watchtower uses the word "evidently" to make their doctrinal point.
(page 9, para 6).
(page 19 para 5).
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Awen
Slightly off topic but I recently asked a former Elder about the 607 BCE date and the Appointed Times of the Nations teaching. It mentions in the passage that Israel would be trampled on until this time was fulfilled. Casting aside dates and focusing on Jesus words when he gave the illustration of the figs coming into fruition, once could discern that spring was near, likewise so "your deliverance is at hand." This would seem to indicate to me at least that nothing can be dated. Consider that the Jews were looking for the Messiah around a certain time, yet there was no definitive year attached to their expectation, so Herod had children from infancy up to 9 years of age killed (no specific time frame, hence the age of the child was in doubt). When Cyrus came into power the Jews knew from his accomplishments who was their deliverer and not because of a certain date. Likewise it seems to be the same with the trampling of Israel, which ceased in 1948 when Israel was formerly recognized as a sovereign nation.
The explanation I received was that the Appointed Times of the Nations referred to spiritual Israel. The only problem with this is that the term "spiritual" Israel is a WTS invented term and doesn't appear in the Bible at all. So how can a "prophecy" have fulfillment in a term that doesn't even exist in the Bible. I suspect a Witness might say the term is inferred. Using that sort of reasoning terms such as "Trinity. Hellfire, and many others are also "inferred". Using only the information given the whole 1914 doctrine falls flat on it's face.
Back on topic, the psychological bullying is rampant in the organization. If you don't agree with something the FDS has said, then you're either an Apostate or a moron. The WTS expects members to simply take their word for it, rather than citing auritative sources for scholarly works that back up their claims on the use of certain dates. It's like the whole debacle with the New World Translation committee which consisted of one person, Fredrick W. Franz who only had 2 years of College and had a C Average. When pressed in Court he could even translate the simplest of Hebrew words, yet we are to believe he faithfully translated the NWT and it's one of the best translations out there.
http://www.bible-researcher.com/new-world.html -
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Now that Rick is gone......
by outsmartthesystem indo you think there is any chance we can get 20571pnt428571......8675309....r2d2....10-4 over and out to quit bombarding the message boards with ridiculous apocolpytic fortune telling?
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Awen
Thank goodness.
If I wanted to hear tripe like that I would go back to the Kingdumb Hall.
Peace,
Awen
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52
Sex, the Disabled and the Terminally Single
by bigmouth input aside your religious or moral standards if you can for a moment and give me your viewpoint on this......... generally, the 'beautiful people' pair off with other 'beautiful people' in a sexual union for however long, and the average lookers meet other average lookers and so on down the line until you come to.......................those who don't appeal to the opposite sex due to appearance, injury, illness or mental capacity.. can, or should, these people be given access to those in the sex trade for 'relief' without cause for fear or stigmatising ?
or is it a case of "that's too bad" (meaning you're committing fornication and that cannot be sanctioned in any way)?.
have you ever needed to counsel a person (or their parents) on this ?
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Awen
I think what two consenting adults (whether disabled or not ) is their choice and not anyone else's. I am totally against government agencies interfering in people's lives. Morality is up to the individual and no group whether Christian or otherwise has the right to inflict their viewpoint upon another human being so long as what the person in question is doing doesn't bring harm to others.
It might not be something I would do, but I will fight for your right to be treated with respect, dignity and to live a happy, fulfilling life.
Peace,
Awen
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Awen
Great Work Terry!
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13
The Christmas Star??
by Butterflyleia85 inso remember the bible story book chapter 86 men guided by a star... remember it said that satan is the one who must have made that star shine because it was leading the chief priests that was brought by herod who in fact wanted jesus killed!
matthew 2:1-23; micah 5:2. ok so i was reading out of my son's christmas book that his grandma gave him.
it has a part "following the star"...wise men heard about the birth of jesus, the new king.
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Awen
An interesting read, it explains how the star moved and how it stayed in the night sky for 2 years.
http://ldolphin.org/birth.html
There is a lot of historical information posted here so you have to scroll down a few paragraphs after part two to get to the scientific analysis of the Star.
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131
Proof of God or Christ without a holy book
by Awen inin some previous posts i have asked certain questions that still haven't been answered.
so without going back to those threads and possibly de-railing them i thought it best to make a new topic.
please bear with me.. i have asked certain ones to prove the existence of god or christ without referencing any biblical writings or characters.
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Awen
In the past month or so that I have refrained from commenting I have done some "soul-searching". I was once a believer and I wondered why I had seemingly lost my way. The Bible writers many times questioned God and why things were the way they were or are and eventually got the answers they were looking for. So have I.
There are many different religions on this planet, all with their own interpretation of who God is and what He expects of us. Who am I to question the validity of their faith or the experiences they have had? I'm just a mote of dust blowing in the wind. I think that the bad things spoken of God in the OT were things God really didn't do, but rather things that were done in His name and attributed to Him in order to put the fear of Him in the enemies of the Israelites. We can never know for sure since none of us were there, but I think it's a fair assumption when others, especially His Son contradicts these personality traits that God never did any of these things.
Consider for example the Witnesses explanation of why hell doesn't exist. Jah found it repulsive that the hebrews were sacrificing their sons and daughters to Molec in Gehenna (the high plains of Topeth outside of the walls of Jerusalem), something "He had not commanded, nor had come up into His heart". So it would be quite hypocritical of Him to condemn this action and then send people to Hell, a much worse place by comparison.
So it seems the OT is filled with much hypocrisy on the part of the Israelites when it comes to the nature of God. The Israelites had no problem disobeying God when it suited their purpose or desires. Consider the Moabites who made an alliance with the Israelites upon their arrival in Canaan under false pretenses. The Israelites upon discovering their charade could have put them all to the sword (as they were supposedly commanded by God to do) but didn't. Some time later Ruth, the Moabite, became an ancestor of Jah eShua. So if it WAS indeed God's commandment for them to be put to the sword for simply occupying the land of Canaan, then why allow Ruth this privilege? Obviously the Israelite scribes had lied about the message they received (if any at all) concerning the native residents.
I have questioned extensively why God allows suffering and it comes down to love on His part. That might sound odd but consider that we are responsible for the majority of suffering on this planet and yet we stand idly by and complain about it and do not much of anything.
We have a beautiful planet that sustains us and produces all that we need to survive. Yet because of our own greed, it is being systematically destroyed. We have thus far been unable to ascertain how life originally started. All we have is speculation (as long as we leave God out of the picture) yet the complexity of life is all the "witness" we need to know that God exists.
God not speaking to us or seemingly not doing so isn't His fault, but ours. We choose by our hard-heartedness not to listen and to not take note of our surroundings. Gos is speaking all the time. jesus is speaking all the time, but not in the way we wish them so, but in their own way. If we immigrated to a foreign country we wouldn't expect everyone (who looks like ourselves) to learn English just so we could communicate. The burden would be upon ourselves to learn their language, customs, morals, etc. So it is also with God. Though being made in His image we have grown very far away from Him and His Son. We have forgotten how to listen and how to speak. Like spoiled children we demand and stamp our feet at God that He give us what we want. How many good parents on these boards know that when a child does this the best thing to do is not give in? The child must change their attitude first and humbly ask for help. They must submit to God's authority (much like a child to a parent) in order to receive instruction. Yet many on these boards while knowing this still refuse to do so and then wonder why God doesn't listen to their prayers or answer them, nor make His presence known in their lives. This isn't always the case. Many prayers have been answered, but many times we are blinded by our own stiff-necked pride to see it and so it goes "unfulfilled" as far as we are concerned.
So I realized I was falling into this trap. I had prayers answered but I didn't like the answer. I wanted something different. However I had promised to follow Jah eShua (and all that it might entail) and so I got it. It's been difficult, but everything is as it should be. It's a matter of putting aside doubt and simply doing. If ever I have endured hardship, 95% of the time I can put the blame squarely upon myself. the other 5% might be discipline that I need (as any parent who truly loves their child would give).
And so it goes.
Awen, your servant and slave of Jah eShua
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Baptism in Holy Spirit and in Fire
by Inkie inthis morning my brother asked me a question about the following biblical text.
i indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than i, whose shoes i am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the holy spirit and in fire.matthew 3:11. .
apparently, it seems, the brothers statement came from the societys cd-rom.
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Awen
My most dearest Sister in the Lord Shelby:
Thank you for your post on this subject. It has been one I have been mulling over for quite some time and although it took a while I was finally able to find the answer I have been seeking.
Free Will.
Why do bad things happen to people?
Free Will.
Why do people suffer?
Free Will.
What sort of people would we be if God stepped in everytime we skinned our knees and "kissed it and made it all better"?
We as a race (and as individuals) have the means to change our world, but we choose for the most part not to. We want that flatscreen for Christmas or a new cellphone, or perhaps an iPod. On our way to Best Buy to purchase these things we might see a homeless person who we might give a wide berth instead of helping them out. We already have a TV, but we've just got to have the bigger one. "Every person needs to stand on their own two feet and fend for themselves" we might muse to ourselves. Fine, then never ask God for anything again for you have just told God never to listen to you again.
Mankind suffers because WE, not God permit it. We made this mess and we continue to make it everyday. There are children one might say who are born with horrible diseases and so we blame God, yet truly it's our fault. It is OUR burden to carry and God actually shows tremendous love by NOT stepping in and making it "all better".
Consider if you have a child and you spoil them with gifts and them not having to be responsible for their actions. Are they thankful? Do they become well-adjusted responsible, kind loving people? No, quite the opposite in fact. They become the worst sort of people who never grow up and expect Mom/Dad/God to just hand everything to them without lifting a finger for themselves.
Consider this: God's Law says (paraphrasing) "You shall not commit forniction or adultery." We all know this one, it's not a mystery. Yet how many people on this board or elsewhere have done this very thing (or know someone who has) and then cry out to God when we contract an STD or have an unwanted pregnancy? Who's to blame? God? Obviously not. We knew what we were doing and we took the selfish road and did it anyway. Then we blame God for not fixing it for us, like spoiled children.
We are unwilling to shoulder the burden that we ourselves have placed upon ourselves. Diseases spread because of our own selfishness (individually and as a race). We may know we have a genetic predisposition for certain ailments, yet we choose to procreate, then when it hits the fan we complain to God. Really?
Some might say it's wrong to prohibit others or ourselves from procreating simply because they might catch something.
Well consider this one, simple example. IF.....no one in history had ever violated God's law on fornication or adultery, how rampant would STD's be? They would be virtually non-existent.
Diseases would have only been passed between married couples and down through families, rather than multiple sexual partners. AIDs would not be as rampant as it is today if people followed God's law concerning sexual relations. The only single teen mothers we would have would be those who were divorced or widows. But people are selfish. They know right from wrong but exercise their God-given free will and choose to make the wrong decision...on purpose. THAT is why bad things happen to good people. Because the good people are surrounded by idiots who only care about what they want and not one whit about how their actions might affect others, in direct conflict with Jah eShua's words to "Love thy neighbor as yourself".
Free Will doesn't mean being separated from God. It means making decisions without God looking over your shoulder every time you have a choice to make. We want to be able to do what we want without anyone interfering. But when it all goes badly for us, we get down on bended knee and beg for help with our own selfishness. Often after the situation has been resolved (to something we can deal with) we go back and do it again. We say we don't want God meddling in our business yet that is exactly what we seem to be asking for when we cry out to God to "fix" things for us. So which is it? What do we want? A society where we get to make our own decisions apart from God? We've seen the outcome of that already.
Mankind has started numerous wars. Mankind has caused poverty and disease to spread like wildfire yet we cry out to God to fix something that is well within our control if only we accept the responsiblity for our actions.
Revelation shows us that God only steps in when humanity is on the brink or destroying itself.
Until then, it's up to us.
We have the example of Jah eShua to follow so we know what must be done and how to do it. Humanity as a whole simply lacks the love for one another to actually do something about it.
The new iPod is out, or the newest flatscreen is on sale. We can always save the world after we're done shopping.
Or can we?
Peace to you, a slave of Jah eShua.
Awen
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131
Proof of God or Christ without a holy book
by Awen inin some previous posts i have asked certain questions that still haven't been answered.
so without going back to those threads and possibly de-railing them i thought it best to make a new topic.
please bear with me.. i have asked certain ones to prove the existence of god or christ without referencing any biblical writings or characters.
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Awen
@ Shelby
When reading your posts I became quite upset. I was fuming. However after a few minutes I stopped and asked myself why I was fuming and the answer was given.
Because you're correct. About all of it. Difficult to admit but the fault is mine and mine alone. I lack faith.
I thought about my best friend and how he has sometimes disappointed me but I still love him like a brother. Love has caused me to give him the benefit of the doubt, so why am I unable to do so with Christ?
I suppose I don't love Christ enough for me to keep patient awaiting an answer or to endure through a hrdship because I feel I cannot take it anymore. I just don't love Christ the way he deserves and I don't know how.
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13
Help With an Elusive Rutherford Book?
by Teary Oberon ini've managed to find scans of all of judge rutherford's 100+ page books (23 in total) except for one rather elusive title:.
"can the living talk with the dead?
" circa 1920 by judge rutherford (128 pages).
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