Posts by Larsinger58

Thanks. Evolutionists want to disconnect abiogenesis from their fantasy theory. Well, sorry, you can't. Evolution vs. abiogensis wouldn't keep coming up unless they were obviously connected.

Abiogenesis and evolution may not be connected in the world of evolutionists, but they are still connected in the real world, which completely disproves that incorrect theory. What evolutionists need to do is disprove the Bible, which they can't.

LS

15

Armageddon Part II

by LostGeneration in

one of the things that bothered me as a jw growing up was the idea that there would be a second armageddon.

they don't phrase it that way, but what else could it be when you read stuff like this from the 3/15 wt.. "obedient humans will gradually be set free from enslavement to corruption.

if they remain faithful to jehovah throughout the millennium and during the final test that will come at the end of it, their names will be permanently written in the scroll of life.

Larsinger58

Actually, this is another example of how the Bible gets the wrap for a WTS false teaching. This is how it works:

1) Based on Zech 13:8 where two-thirds of the Jews died in the Holocaust and 1/3rd preserved, when that is applied to the world population 2/3rds will not be chosen for the 1000-year rule of Christ, a very special time.

2) Likely 1/3 will be killed immediately, those wanting to hold on to world control. Another third will survive Armageddon and die of old age. But both these groups will return on Judgment Day to be judged. THERE IS NO RESURRECTION DURING THE 1000 YEAR REIGN! This is one of the critical false teachings of the WTS. Read Revelation closely. The 2nd resurrection is clearly after Satan is destroyed and thus comes after that event. That means the 1/3 who are chosen for this special time and rule under Christ will be the ones being taught about Jehovah by the associate 1,440,000 king priests. This will establish people who in perfection know Jehovah's requirements and are uninfluenced by Satan or various worldly governments. Children will also be born during this time. After the 1000 years, Satan is let loose to test the millennium population. Many will rebel at this time against Christ's rule. Those that do and who follow Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. Then after that, Judgment Day starts. Those who overcome Satan's test will be judged and go to the trees of life and get everlasting life. Then after that, the 2nd resurrection takes place and those resurrected will be judged based on their moral choices during their life.

The Bible clearly says books will be opened and they will be judged based on what is in the books. The books simply represent a record of their past lives. Of critical note, again, they are judged based on their own moral decisions during their previous lives. Furthermore, some are already condemned and some already get resurrected with their names already in the "book of life." So this concept that everybody who dies before Armageddon will get resurrected during the 1000-year reign is a false teaching and concept of the WTS. It is not what the Bible teaches.

If you base the percentage of angels that rebelled against Jehovah and joined Satan, that is, 1/3rd of them, then likely one could suspect the same general percentage applied to the final world population. That is, likely 2/3rds would be considered worthy of eternal life, and 1/3 would be permanently destroyed in the lake of fire. That means that some who die at Armageddon or who are excluded from the milennium, might still end up getting eternal life.

But some people, who want to be rich and want to have servants and like suppressing others will not be happy in a NWO where everybody is equal and multiculturalism and ethnic diversity are proactive elements. They would rather die than be poor or rub elbows with whom they consider inferior to them.

Some might still have some frustration with God's choices in regards to who will live and who will die, but some of the frustration expressed here is based not on the Bible but on false WTS doctrine. Again, there is NO RESURRECTION DURING THE MELLENNIUM! That's a false teaching. Plus far more than JWs will survive Armageddon. Don't forget, Jesus sent out ten slaves to gather righteous people. The WTS is just one of those ten, only it ends up being the one "evil slave" who fails. Also, based on the WTS representing the ten virgins, where only half of them enter the kingdom, it is likiely at this point a liability to still be an active JW! The WTS is now a false and apostate organization. It is the "false prophet" organization mentioned in Revelation that is cast into the lake of fire along with Christendom, which is represented by the 666-Beast, meaning the trinity-believing churches of Christendom. The WTS is represented by the lamb-dragon beast that is also the "false prophet."

LS

28

Where in the BIble does it say Adultery Must involve Penetration?

by BrendaRob in

okay,i have been there and believe me it wasn't easy.

you're "happily married" in the truth.

husband's an elder (coordinator these days), and long story short, boom!

Larsinger58

Just another couple of things. Remember Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky? He knew how far to go and even though oral sex is grounds for divorce (i.e. porneia) I think not having intercourse saved face for Hillary and it didn't seem a total betrayal somehow. Plus you avoid pregnancy and all those issues.

The second thing is a true situation that happened. A teenager came up pregnant and she and her boyfriend claimed they never had sex. I think they checked and saw that she was still a virgin, and she was. The elders had to keep interviewing them in detail, though, until they admitted that they did fool around and climax was achieved. Apparently there was "no penetration" but seiminal fluid in the vacinity of the vagina still ended up getting the girl pregnant. Both were promptly disfellowshipped.

I posted elsewhere, of course, where at one time, actually up until about 1972, homosexuality was not grounds for divorce, nor bestiality. That was changed later and rightly so. But it underscores even where there is no overt act, the pain of the betrayal is just as bad. You know your mate is in love with someone else and has betrayed you emotionally though not spiritually. The pain and hurt are still there. My heart really goes out to those innocent parties. Jehovah knows the heart though and so while they might get away with it in the congregation, they won't on Judgment Day.

Another case that seems relevant is a couple I knew where the wife wanted to divorce her husband, so she went out and committed adultery to get a legal divorce. But he didn't want a divorce. He was the innocent partner and it is up to the innocent partner to forgve the infidelity. But the wife, being in the truth a long time, just figured she'd commit adultery, be disfellowshipped for a year or two, then get back in and marry someone else, which she did. So that raises the question as to wether the grounds for divorce were actually met. There was adultery involved, but the innocent party was forgiving.

Furhter, I'm not asolutely sure, but if a non-believer divorces his believing mate and doesn't remarry or otherwise commit adultery, I'm not sure if the congregation considers her free to remarry in the congregation.

One more case of trivia regarding divorce was the case of a brother who had been married for like 30 years. He was older. But at some point it was discovered the woman he married and who had been his wife all those years was not legally divorced from her previous husband. When the elders found out, of course, the brother had to move out until she got a legal divorce. But the wife decided she didn't want to do that, apparently she wasn't happy with him and was glad to be free. I find it ironic he had been living in fornication all that time and didn't really know it.

LS

28

Where in the BIble does it say Adultery Must involve Penetration?

by BrendaRob in

okay,i have been there and believe me it wasn't easy.

you're "happily married" in the truth.

husband's an elder (coordinator these days), and long story short, boom!

Larsinger58

What did the motorcycle rider say when his wheel fell off? You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel. remember the song you picked a fine time to leave me Lucel, by Kenny Rogers?

H h h. Cute. I got it and almost laughed. Okay, I finally laughed. Ha. Thanks for the levity! I like sick humor like this. Like the one about a boy born with no arms, no legs and no body whose mom would set him on a plate in the window to look at the other kids playing. Then one day wishing so hard, his fairy godmother granted his wish to have a normal body and limbs. He was so happy, he jumped right up and ran across the yard and into the street where he was hit by a Watchtower van. (I had to make this WTS-relevant some way...sorry!) He was instantly killed. So the moral of the story is: Don't get baptized...oh sorry, I mean: Quit while you're a head.

Sick, I know. But you laughed anyway so what does that say about YOU? tee hee

LS

49

11,824 Memorial Partakers in 2011

by FrankWTower in

there were 11,202 partakers in 2010. and 11,824 partakers in 2011.. there was an increase of 622 or 5.5% in one year.. your thoughts?.

source: 2012 yearbook (in spanish).

Larsinger58

You are so right Quendi and wha happened! Dubs haven't had an original thought since they joined and have been put to sleep. They don't REASON on things. Further, they don't want to. I have a cousin who is an elder who was visiting and I presented some "questions" for him and he concluded I'd come up with a lot of things by extensively studying with apostates but that anything I came up with, though even to him seemed logical, the WTS had an answer for it and it was just a matter of him going to the publications to look it up. That's his state of mind--that he doesn't have to think or work things out, that is the responsibility of the WTS. His sole duty was to serve them faithfully.

Others sense and know things are wrong and just don't want to face having to do anything about it so they just run from you. So I have the same sentiment, that as bad as the WTS may be in the leadership, they are leading those who want to be misled. They are in charge of those who love the darkness in the first place. In a way, they are spiritually lazy/sleep and don't want that to change.

Ten Virgins: I also would like to add, though, on a fulfillment basis. If the "ten virgins" represent the anointed with JWs, meaning the partaking group, the Bible indicates they all nodded and their lamps burned low. That means they did not understand the details and specifics of the second coming, such as Christ taking up the body of one of his followers, the physical 2nd coming, etc. But this was part of the divinely imposed darkness that was to occur after the great tribulation, i.e. "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven..." This corresponds to the nodding of the ten virgins and ther lamps going dim. But when the call in the night occurs that the bridegroom had arrived, which occurred in the Fall of 1998 when I announced the 2nd coming in 1992 and that I was the messiah, then the five wise virgins who had the extra oil, that is, those who were paying attention to chronology and all the prophecies and who were not so impressed with everything the GB told them, got their lamps in order and shining and they were able to connect to accepting the manner and timing for the second coming that had occrred. These then were inducted into the JIOR, those who are part of the wedding feast who understand the truth and details of the 2nd coming. But the foolish virgins didn't get it. Plus the wise virgins didn't share their understanding, their extra oil, with the five foolish virgins. Meaning what?

Meaning that per the Bible, only half the anointed are alert enough to be granted their calling and the other half do not. So from a factual point of view, if we presume those still partaking even roughly represent the ten virgins, only half of those 11,000+ make it into the kingdom, the other half re rejected and become the "grapes of wrath." So that's another thing. There is a very high failure rate among those "invited" to the kingdom because they don't want to accept the reality of Christ returning in 1992 rather than 1914 or that he returns in a physical body, but especially in the body of another person.

When you combine that failure factor among anointed witnesses with the fact that the 144,000 are just 1/10th of the entire number, being the "root" of the tre and thus the full number of the anointed being 1,440,000, then true-life comparisons of those partaking in relation to the 144,000 is irrelevant. The WTS presents the idea that most of the 144,000 would remain faithful and that a failre of a few might open up new seats or any younger person becoming one of the anointed, or I should say any new person starting to partake. But in reality, half of the anointed of the WTS fail that calling because they are not paying attention. The other half don't reveal to them what is really going on, they don't share their "extra oil." Eventually, which is what is happening now, the understanding of the chronology and nature of Christ's 2nd coming in a physical body is understood and revealed to them at which time they want to then acknowledge the messiah and enter into the wedding feast, but they find the door closed and their seats taken by others. The GB and those faithfully following them rather than the Bible would be among those who are part of the "foolish virgin" class and thus become part of the "grapes of wrath" who are expelled from the kingdom.

LS

49

11,824 Memorial Partakers in 2011

by FrankWTower in

there were 11,202 partakers in 2010. and 11,824 partakers in 2011.. there was an increase of 622 or 5.5% in one year.. your thoughts?.

source: 2012 yearbook (in spanish).

Larsinger58

eldersmelder:

Does Larsinger58 believe his own posts?

elder-schmelder

ROFL! I empathize with you. This is really a few lanes over from the mainstream. The average person here, I think, don't believe tghe WTS is any special organization or in any way "God's chosen people" or "spiritual Israel" as they claim. Many don't believe the Bible at all. So this topic are for those who actually believe the "anointed" are truly real and thus "holy spirit" is real and that the WTS is fulfilling Bible prpohecy. I'm on the complete extreme end of things since I'm part of the fulfillment of all of this. So, YES, I believe my own posts but I'm speaking from actually living it. I'm of the anointed and am explaining this from the "inside" of what is actually happening. I'm not just interpreting scripture. But this will only have meaning for a very select few. The others, like yourself, will fall into the category of those whose minds are blinded and who cannot believe, even if explained in detail. It was designed that way. To simply not be able to be seen as being real. This directly fulfills Acts 13:41:

41 ‘Behold it, YOU scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in YOUR days, a work that YOU will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to YOU in detail.’”

So this topic is where we see some subjective spillover fulfillment of a very specific understanding applying to a very limited group.

In general, think of the WTS as the field of wheat and weeds, where Satan sows weeds into the organization from the very beginning. To save the wheat in this organization, the decision was made to "let the wheat and weeds grow together until the harvest" and then separate the wheat from the weeds. That plays out taking the "little flock" out of the WTS and bringing them to "other sheep not of this fold" and then abandoning the WTS as apostate. That's what is happening right now. The WTS has no truth about the reality of what is happening, is apostate and rejected, is in spiritual darkness. They are the "evil slave" now since 1992 and particularly since 1996, when all covenants end for both Jews and JWs.

But if you don't believe the Bible and are not a witness, this means nothing and seems like nonsense. Even so, it is still real. There is a 'chasm" between those in the inside and those on the outside, so there is nothing those on the inside, who are experiencing the reality, can do to help those on the outside.

I guess for the outsiders the "reality wake-up call" will be Armageddon. That will be the ultimate confirmation of the Bible as true. But there are lots of thiings that need to take place (i.e. 2nd coming, sealing of 1,440,000 elect, 1st resurrection, etc.) before Armageddon begins so when it actually begins, then you will know these things have taken place, but they are things that are not readily observable or completely invisible. All thuis will come as a "thief in th enight" for 99.9% of the world with respect to Christ's 2nd coming.

LS

28

Where in the BIble does it say Adultery Must involve Penetration?

by BrendaRob in

okay,i have been there and believe me it wasn't easy.

you're "happily married" in the truth.

husband's an elder (coordinator these days), and long story short, boom!

Larsinger58

Welcome! I don't know if this helps, and it is clear the rules are not standardized, but I'll relate how a similar situation was handled, though the wife's behavior instigated it.

A very attractive wife was married to an unbeliever but found a man whom she met in field service whom she decided was the ideal mate and decided she wanted to marry him, which she eventually did. But she knew her husband well and his infidelities so withheld sexual favors from him, knowing quite well he'd likely get it elsewhere. So she had a close friend in the truth follow him. She had the same task as you to "prove" adultery. But the elders told her that if he was alone with this woman and in her house and the "lights went out" then she could get a divorce. She didn't have to prove they had sex, only the reasonable presumption. Now they probably did have sex, but all that seemed to be required by the elders was his being alone with her and the light going out. He was devastated to have been found out and that his wife was divorcing him. She got the divorce and promptly married her Bible Study once he got baptized.

Oh, and in another case, where an elder was guilty of fondling only several different women, the elder was disfellowshipped. But no technical fornication took place. The wife, though claimed he betrayed her in his heart. The elders told her even though he was disfellowshipped, though, since there was no formal "adultery" she could not divorce him. She, however, basically told the elders to take a hike and divorced him anyway. There was little the elders could do. And later she married another brother and their marriage was accepted, whatever.

So it just depends. Like someone said, hang around and the horror stories will amaze you!

LS

49

11,824 Memorial Partakers in 2011

by FrankWTower in

there were 11,202 partakers in 2010. and 11,824 partakers in 2011.. there was an increase of 622 or 5.5% in one year.. your thoughts?.

source: 2012 yearbook (in spanish).

Larsinger58

This has got to be driving the die-harder Bethel-Boys mad.

Marvin Shilmer

Yes! And this was prophesied. How the first-hour workers would "murmur" against the 11th-hour workers. Basically, the 1st-hour workers are those who began the work in 1914, but by 1935 it was clear there was another class of workers. Each hour is 7 years so the 3rd-hour workers were apparent 21 years (3x7) after 1914 and thus in 1935 (1914 +21 = 1935). Thus the vineyard workers represent the WTS and their 2-class system, with the earliest ones all being of the anointed and from the 3rd-hour workers to the 11th-hour workers thinking they would get something less. But in reality, ALL the workers get the "penny," which is heavenly calling. That is, even though the "other sheep" expected quite happily to live forever on the earth, once the 11 hours of vineyard work was completed in 1991 (11x7=77, 77+1914=1991), then ALL of the workers, from the last to the first get invited to heaven.

So technically, there should have been an increase in the anointed, especially since 1991-1998, which is the 12th hour, the hour the messiah pays the workers. But when all this increase in the anointed start showing up, the original anointed, those in charge of the Society, are shocked and not happy with this. The fact that the anointed are increasing and that they will not get anything special beyond what as promised disturbs them. So YES! their claim that the anointed, the 144,000 should be dwindling and that no more are being added is a slap in the face of their expectations and interpretation. So it disburbs them the "reality" is not matching their understanding.

Now keep in mind, the WTS does not understand the vineyard workers parable. They think they are the 11th-hour workers, coming late into the work compared to Chistendom. Their persecution complex see themselves as being murmured against by the 1st-hour workers. But just because the 1st-hour workers murmur against the 11th-hour workers, the master still pays them their wage, after all, they did faithfully carry out the work! Secondly, if the 1th-hour workers are the WTS, who claim they are the only ones going to heaven, what about all the other workers? Who did they represent? They ALL get the penny! Wouldn't they be part of Christendom? So it doesn't work!

Finally, check Isa 6:13 which describes the "root" of a tree being spared from a tree chopped down. The tree represents the kingdom seats. The chopping down of the tree represent the Jewish branches that were lopped off. But the remnant of the Jews making up the root were left. Thus a remnant of Jews remain to fulfill the Abrahamic promise and Isa 6:13 assigns the root as 1/10th of the entire tree. The lopped off branches, of course, are replaced by gentiles, "wild olives", but the root remains Jewish.

Thus the 144,000 are actually all NATURAL JEWS, 12K from each tribe. If this is only 1/10th or 10%, then the entire number to be called would be 10X 144K which is 1,440,000! When Christ arrives and calls those invited to the wedding, many beg off and there are many seats thus left to be filled.

So the increase in the anointed, which is just a small portion of the entire calling, that is, just those who are JWs (remember Christ sent out TEN slaves and the WTS is just the one "evil slave" organization.) So the increase is certainly viable. it represents those who are JWs who believe they have the heavenly calling, which is perfectly possible. 1,440,000 seats have to be filled, not just 144,000.

Even so, as you note, the original workers, the original anointed, are a bit miffed and confused about this. It's a surprise to them that Christ is invited those of the other sheep into the kingdom! But this prophesied "murmuring" by the original anointed was prophesied. At the very least it confirms their "surprise" that suddenly there are many more anointed.

Now those still partaking with the WTS are those of the anointed who do not fully understand that Christ arrived in 1992 and after eating his first passover on April 6, 1993, there was no need for further partaking since he had returned. The Lord's Supper was a memorial until he returned. So many who have the full understanding don't partake, even if they remain witnesses. So those partaking now would be part of those who are considered "old winekins." Christ does not put "new wine" into the "old wineskins." This means there are two groups of Christians, some who have the advanced understading and those who are still accepted who have an outdated or dim understanding. Thus those now partaking would be of the "old wineskin" group who do not have the "new wine" or Christ's return in 1992, and thus still partake. But it is wonderful still to see them and they definitely are expected.

So this is exciting to see! It fulfills Bible prophecy but trips up the understanding of the 1st-hour workers, the original anointed, who still think that the 144,000 is the full number of those in the kingdom and who are not expecting any more of the anointed. But the anointed are growing!

Also recall the parable of the prodigal son. The prodigal son becomes the messiah and has a banquet thrown for him by the father, but the older brother, again, murmurs against this choice. But the father comes out and reassures him that he is not rejected, "what is mine is yours." Then he goes back to the banquet where the messianic activity is going on. Thus, again, you have those on the inside and those on the outside of the banquet. Those on the outside, the older brother, are not rejected. So what I believe we are seeing are the increase in the older brother anointed who are still partaking. Those insiders who are part of the banquet and who know the chronology and accept the true messiah in secret, do not partake. So there are far more than the 11,000+ who are now of the heavenly class.

So, again, as I said, this is quite wonderful!

So for any of the "other sheep" who believe they are getting a spiritual calling, ACCEPT IT. There is a strong probability it is real since ALL the workers, including the other sheep, get invited into the kingdom and are paid the "penny." This is something the WTS, made up of the older brother class, or the "old wineskins" class are surprised and embarrassed about.

LS