Posts by Larsinger58

34

THE BLIND SPOT identifying the refuting target of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Terry in

the life of a human being progresses toward maturity and peaks and then gradually atrophies into old age, inability, possibly debilitation and then death.. it is the same for all people unless they meet with an accident or misfortune along that continuum.. i propose that we measure and test the virtue of being a jehovah's witness by focusing on the blind spot of their religion.. .

what is the blind spot?.

the watchtower society is in major denial that the members of that religion will actually grow old and die.. as a consequence of this major blind spot the members are less likely to include provisions for that inevitability.. the active and committed jw spends a preponderance of their vital years serving the needs of the group and not for saving for old age.. once that outstanding performance lessens and fizzles into decrepitude--the society itself makes no provision for their senescence.. .

Larsinger58

There's another depp slice for this topic. If you're a governing body member or elderly person at Bethel, then you have a great retirement. But I know of one case where a brother for years in full-time service, I believe as a circuit overseer, became ill and had to leave the full-time service. He lost that support and was then now forced to enter the job market. The ultimate burden ended upon on the local congregation. So why is it, with all the WTS' great wisdom, don't they provide health care and retirement for those in the full-time service, equal to that at headquarters?

Full-time service can be very fulfilling and the Bible says that you can live off the ministry, which is practical. But now that is not happening. Paul worked and took care of himself so that he was not a burden on others.

But this is also not a black and white issue. In the WTS' defense, who always encouraged full-time service rather than a career in this world, while discouraging a formal college education, they did encourage members to laarn a useful trade, such as typing and shorthand or accounting, etc. I had a scholarship to go to medical school but turned it down because I wanted to go into the full-time ministry and didn't want to spend all that time in college. But based on what the WTS suggested, I did learn shorthand and typing and it proved to be a wonderful skill choice. I always had a job. I later took up medical transcription and that was a very high-paying skill until voice recognition and outsourcing to India slashed salaries.

In hindsight, unless you are going into the full-time ministry and possibly planning to remain single, you need to get some skills!! Taking care of a family is not easy.

But the "blind spot" is very much a factor as well. People don't plan well into the future if they think the world is going to end in a year or two!

Of course, some in the congregation just totally ignored that advice and made sure their children were educated and had skills, and I don't mean like typing and shorthand, I mean like nursing and mechanics, etc. Some who faltered a bit and joined the military ended up going to college and getting a degree etc.

Even so, for those who tend to be very spiritually minded, we prefer a minimal amount of our time be spent making a living. We prefer our time to money. But for others who choose to have families, there is a clear message of hypocrisy. If you're spending 14 hours a day on a high-end career job that's making you rich, you're considered "materialistic", but if you have basic skills or less and have to work two jobs to take care of your family making minimum wage, you're admired.

13

Transexuals, transgenders and intersex people

by yalbmert99 in

what it the point of view of the watcthower on transexuals, transgenders and intersex people?

an article was written about it by the watchtower bible and tract society, but was never published.

however, several jehovahs witnesses in position of authority are aware of it.

Larsinger58

Interesting. The WTS tends to go with the physical sex, ignoring the psychological sex.

25

Why a day behind Passover? Weren't the apostles celebrating Passover?

by wha happened? in

i don't get the day differeance.

what's the obscure referance the wt uses to set the memorial a day late?.

Larsinger58

QUENTI:

As far as I’m concerned, the whole celebration is pointless. 1 Corinthians 11:26 reads, “For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he arrives.” The WTS maintains that the Lord arrived in 1914. If that is so, then there should be no further Memorial observances. The Witnesses I’ve read this scripture to grow distinctly uncomfortable upon hearing those words.

Quendi

LARS:

Exactly! It's a technical farse!

19

Memorial and Time Zones

by pixel in

looking at this thread by winstonsmith, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/249671/1/notes-from-2013-memorial-talk-appreciate-what-christ-has-done-for-you.

made me think, how is the memorial celebrated in different parts of the world?

do they all fall on this year's march 26?

Larsinger58

I don't think it really matters, since there is a degree of flexibility in the calendar.

The WTS follows a certain rule, for instance, 18 hours after the technical new moon since that is the earliest they determined any real new crescent could be seen. But astronomical texts show that the date was called as early as 10 hours after the technical new moon. So it was a judgment call or a convenience call. I don't think it much matters; that day's difference.

25

Why a day behind Passover? Weren't the apostles celebrating Passover?

by wha happened? in

i don't get the day differeance.

what's the obscure referance the wt uses to set the memorial a day late?.

Larsinger58

ST GEORGE:

Finally, Numbers 33:3 shows clearly that the Passover was on the 15th of the month, NOT the 14th.

George

LARS:

Glad you mentioned this. This is not correct! Indeed, the Jews (Isrealities) left Egypt on the 15th, but that was because it was after midnight. When the Israelites first left Egypt, they were on the Egyptian calendar which changes the date as we do, at midnight. So it was still Nisan 14th from Sundown to Midnight, which is when they ate the passover meal. Later, some also changed the date at sunset, in which case you would be correct, that the Israelites did celebrate passover on the 15th!!

Per Exodus 12, the 7 days of undermented cakes do begin on the 14th, in the evening, which means it is still the 14th after sundown. But the angel of death did come at midnight and the Israelites left shortly after midnight so when the date changed at midnight from the 14th to the 15th, it notes they left on the 15th.

Not understanding that the Israelites were following the Egyptians by changing the CALENDAR DATE at midnight is a cause for some confusion.

The only other important point is whether the passover meal ended at midnight or not. It does! So the passover meal is definitely eaten on the 14th and not the 15th, only the date changes at midnight. So in that way, the same night the Israelites leave while still being the same night they eat passover, occurs on two different calendar days.

But here is something else interesting. The WTS in their ignorance, will look at a Jewish calendar and see that Passover is always listed on the 15th. But when the Jews list a holiday on the main day, like the 15th, they actually celebrate that event starting the previous day. So even though, for instance, they will show a Saturday as the sabbath, the sabbath actually begins for them that previous Friday after Sunset. So they don't wait until after sunset on the 15th to celebrate the Seder, they celebrate it the previous day when that day begins after sunset. So the Jews do celebrate the passover correctly.

But really, partaking might be considered as "apostate" now since if Christ arrived in either 1914 (607 BCE), 1934 (587 BCE) or 1992 (529 BCE), then the celebration should have ended after that year. The MEMORIAL of Christ's sacrifice was to be continued until his return. After that, it is discontinued! So it is a totally MEANINGLESS event as far as Jehovah and Christ is concerned. Why are they still commorating when he left if he supposed returned, whenever?

25

Why a day behind Passover? Weren't the apostles celebrating Passover?

by wha happened? in

i don't get the day differeance.

what's the obscure referance the wt uses to set the memorial a day late?.

Larsinger58

I Googled and saw this. So apparently others date the passover as do the witnesses:

When is Passover in 2013?

Passover in 2013 will start on Tuesday, the 26th of March and will continue for 7 days until Monday, the 1st of April.

In the USA, Passover ends one day later, so in 2013, Passover will end on Tuesday, the 2nd of April.

Note that in the Jewish calander, a holiday begins on the sunset of the previous day, so observing Jews will celebrate Passover on the sunset of Monday, the 25th of March.

32

If you tried to get your doctrinal or historical questions answered by an elder in your cong...

by NeverKnew in

what was the result?

i have seen answers strewn throughout many posts but never consolidated.

this is important.

Larsinger58

But guess what? You'd think XJWs left because they want answers. But they often are the other side of the same coin. For instance, the Memorial is coming up and JWs and XJWs still don't realize that passover is eaten on the 1st day of UFC and thus Jesus was arrested on a sabbath day and could not have died that same day. He could have only died on the 20th.

Recently I went to church with my cousin who is a minister in the church, someone thus claiming to know the Bible. When I brought up the "three nights" that he thought Christ was in the grave, he didn't want to discuss it. It was too technical and intellectual. It was thus clear many people have an emotional connection to their religion, they focus on where the emotions are but know little of the historical side of the Bible, but also DON'T WANT TO KNOW! Anything that makes them think and feel insecure, they just run from that.

So it seems hopeless for all but a few who will actually change their belief system or who care about the TRUTH.

32

If you tried to get your doctrinal or historical questions answered by an elder in your cong...

by NeverKnew in

what was the result?

i have seen answers strewn throughout many posts but never consolidated.

this is important.

Larsinger58

I think it is a huge challenge and nearly hopeless to talk with some elders about deep issues. One reason is because in the end, most will simply claim it is not their responsibility to correct anything or challenge anything. They are encouraged "not to run ahead" or be an "independent thinker."

I once talked with an elder who was of the anointed and tried to show him something, but he was resistant. He did say the one thing that he wondered about was in Matthew where it says if the days were not cut short then no flesh would be saved. It seemed clear to him that that meant Armageddon would kill off some of the "holy ones." Obviously! It was something he didn't understand. But neither do the witnesses themselves. They think the "great tribulation" in Matthew refers to Armageddon, but it actually refers to the Holocaust and the "holy ones" is a reference to the Jews that were going to be killed during WWI! Armageddon isn't going to kill anyone righteous! Point being, witnesses have a great capacity for tolerating and overlooking contradictions they clearly see in the Bible, but won't pursue it further since they trust the WTS to give them the truth. They see their role as being faithful and in good standing in the congregation and that is directly related to their getting life.

I also have a cousin who is an elder who ended up discussing in great detail some issues. Bottom line is he figured I must be demonized and have studied the most advanced apostte materials. That is, he didn't think I was coming up with these questions on my own. Then he decided, even though he said what I was telling him seemed to make sense, that whatever I came up with, somewhere in some Watchtower or WTS publication they had an answer to everything that effectively contradicted me. In other words, again, he didn't take responsibility to know this for himself.

The average witness is brain dead. They don't even known their own teachings and they figure if the contradictions don't bother the WTS, then it's not their concern. In their hearts they know this is the "true religion" and they don't see any others, so they are willing to deal with the errors.

41

Shocking Email from a Dear Friend who is No Longer a JW

by rubadubdub in

i received this email tonight from a dear, dear friend who i believed had died.

she was in very bad shape when i last spoke with her over a year ago.. "i'll make this short in case it is not functioning.

besides i'm not sure whether it is alright for you to read it or not.

Larsinger58

In special circumstances like these, just do the right thing. If someone were drowning, you'd reach out to save them, disfellowshipped or not. I think this qualifies.

I'll share this briefly with you. It depends on the witness. Everybody doesn't follow strictly nor know strictly what the WTS requires, even though they are emphasizing a complete cutting off of anyone disfellowshipped.

In my situation, I moved from Hawaii, left my good job, etc. to come and take care of my elderly parents. Both my mom and dad are in the truth, 86 and 87 respectively. Now they are both in the nursing home. But for a long while I was living with them in the house. The hypocrisy of cutting off family members was always there. You know, you avoid your children or parents if they are disfellowshipped, UNTIL they need to be taken care of, and then suddenly they expect you to show up and start up a loving relationship with them.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that witnesses would come by the home and I would scurry into my room to avoid them. But pretty soon that became ridiculous. After a while, after a few awkward avoidances, since I had to open the door, etc. some of them at least said hello and left it at that. But others totally treated me as if I wasn't disfellowshipped or disassociated. It went past the usual hello and thank-you for bringing food or something, which I always did. They would be kind and ask how I was. So right now some even speak to me at the meetings and others ask about my parents. They try to keep it formal, but they don't have the "emotion" of hating me like some treat disfellowshipped people.

Plus you should know the WTS has flip-flopped on how to treat a disfeloowshipped person. Only someone in the truth a long time would know this. At first, if someone got disfellowshipped, you were allowed to great them, say "hello" and end it at that. Also, you were allowed to speak to relatives. But apparently in some small town where someone disfellowshipped was related to practically everybody in the congregation, that wasn't good enough for them, so they came up with these strict rules about avoiding any contact whatsoever. It's so cruel and hateful.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, there's a difference in hating the religion, the false teachings vs. hating the people. Most witnesses want to reach out, they want to show love and encourage, but they want to follow the rules as well. But I guess in my case, since they are in MY house and have to interact with me while visiting my parents, they just forego that rule of not speaking and they speak and show kindness.

So in no way feel all that unique. When the situation is complicated, many witnesses can't see the point of those rules or don't know them. Of course, I don't help either, because I speak to them and say hello. I don't do what I'm supposed to do, which is cowl and hold my head down and say: "Oh, I'm so sorry, but I'm disfellowshipped!" I figure it is the congregation's job to let THEM know I'm disfellowshipped.

Now it would be different if they were the "true religion" and had the way to life, instead of just the opposite. It is they who are the apostate "evil slave" now!

We all know this is wrong! Telling children to avoid their parents or visa versa if disfellowshipped, then when they get old and sick and need you, then you're expected to take care of them!!! Suddenly they can talk to you and show love? Oh, please.

At any rate, the WTS is not the mediator. We all must do what is right in our own conscience before God.

But there's another side to this as well. One must be discreet. I used to send out "apostate" material all the time. I made the mistake once of sending some to a close friend in the congregation and putting my parent's address on the letter. This was the time they were building a new Kingdom Hall in the area. When my father went to the site, they rejected him and told him to leave. They thought in some way they were connected with the apostate material, when they weren't. My father was devastated. So I'm between a rock and a hard place sometimes, because I'm living with and taking care of my parents, and I can't be the local APOSTATE #1 in the area that I want to be - it would literally kill them.

MORE: Finally, some of my relatives in the truth have gotten around the avoiding to talk to me issue by establishing a "business" relationship. In some small towns, some JW business owners have to hire those who are disfellowshipped because it affects their livelihood. In one case, the husband was disfellowshipped, but the wife and chidlren were still active. If he were discharged because he got disfellowshipped, then the family still in the truth would suffer. So that is a permissible interaction. So if you were in a business relationship with someone disfellowshipped, then conversing with them would be permissible, technically. So I'm just saying... You can hire someone to sell some greeting cards for you, can't you? That's a business relationship.

I hope all works out for everyone involved. This kind of thing makes me really feel badly.

P.S. I love that someone said the borg is "The Lie" instead of "the truth"! Cute.

41

Shocking Email from a Dear Friend who is No Longer a JW

by rubadubdub in

i received this email tonight from a dear, dear friend who i believed had died.

she was in very bad shape when i last spoke with her over a year ago.. "i'll make this short in case it is not functioning.

besides i'm not sure whether it is alright for you to read it or not.

Larsinger58

OMG! This kind of thing angers me! Thank-you, so much, for sharing this!

I don't know what you are about to do. But more important than a relationship with the GB and the WTS is a relationship with God. She did not sin by taking blood!

My mother was recently in a major hospital here in Texas and it was wonderful the brothers and the "liason committee" comes around to comfort them. I like that. But only out of consideration of my mother's health did I not confront them about the blood issue and why it is non-Biblical. Maybe you can share shese simple references.

Here's the bottom line on the blood issue. To eat or not to eat is based on the WEAK conscience of others. That is, you do not eat if it will stumble your brother with a weak conscience. That is the ONLY reason the Bible told the Christians to "abstain from blood" but it was in the context of being around the Jewish brothers who had weak consciences. We know that to be a fact because the Bible elsewhere tells us if we're in the meat market don't ask about anything, or if we're at the home of an unbeliever to EAT everything without asking! That means if you're at the home of an unbeliever and you are supposed to eat everything without asking what is in it, that includes blood!

So the bottom line is that Christians have ZERO food restrictions! That means prohibitions against tobacco and blood are unscriptural! The WTS has taken "abstrain from blood" and forgotten totally that that is only under the context of when you're with a Christian with a weak conscience! Now eating anything and everything does have a condition, that is, when you are with an UNBELIEVER! So that does not contradict the command to "abstain from blood" in general, but that would obviiously be when you are in a congregational setting of those with a weak conscience. But Christian law removes restrictions from any kind of food!

This makes me MAD. I was going to write every doctor in the hospital about the doctrinal falsehood and hypocrisy of JWs who make such a big deal out of the blood restriction issue, and it is not even scriptural. I was going to give them a pamphlet or something to give to the JW "liasoon committee" and request that they respond to this! Of course they can't. The Bible clearly says if you're at an unbeliever's house to eat everything without asking! Or if you're at a meat market, buy whatever. That's because Christians are under no RITUAL food restrictions whatsoever! The ONLY reason a Christian would restrict their own freedom from eating anything is so as not the stumble the weak conscience of another brother. So clearly, if you can eat anything if you're with an unbeliever, or buy anything without asking in a meat market, then the restriction to "abstain from blood" clearly was only in that particular congregational setting where many of the Jewish brothers apparently still had weak consciences!!!

So this woman has committed no sin. She should know that Jehovah does not condemn here, even if the WTS does.

That's why I get so angry at the GB because they are truly the "man of lawlessness" and the fkg "false prophet" the Bible calls them!

Anyway, I better calm down.

But thank you! This woman has committed no sin.