DrJohnStMark

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Posts by DrJohnStMark

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  100

  To you what was the Watchtower Socity's biggest lie ?

  by The Almighty Homer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes, what was the biggest lie that you can think of, that persuaded you to realize that they were not who they said they were ?.

  for myself it would have to be the year they picked as the destruction of ancient jerusalem 607 bc.. i have an assumption this was done purposely to coincide correctly with making 1914 an a important pivotal date.

  in human history, which by all factual evidence it was not.. unassuming and deceiving manipulation for self marketing purposes.

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  DrJohnStMark

  An eternal life without New England Grinder? Does not sound like life to me...
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  54

  Would the WT$ outright lie?

  by peacedog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in another thread the question of whether or not the wt$ would "outright lie" was raised.. i happen to believe that they would in a heartbeat, although i agree that their preference is for sneaky misleading statements as opposed to outright lies.

  regardless, here's a short list of some of what i consider incontrovertible evidence that yes, the wt$ would outright lie.. .

  consider the following statements printed in the wt magazine:.

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  DrJohnStMark

  Just say in google misquotations in the creation book by jehovah witnesses and then calculate the probability that all those misquotations were an accident...

  After all this, must say that the WT society leaders really have a weird sense of humor: They say all other religions are false religions...
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  100

  To you what was the Watchtower Socity's biggest lie ?

  by The Almighty Homer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes, what was the biggest lie that you can think of, that persuaded you to realize that they were not who they said they were ?.

  for myself it would have to be the year they picked as the destruction of ancient jerusalem 607 bc.. i have an assumption this was done purposely to coincide correctly with making 1914 an a important pivotal date.

  in human history, which by all factual evidence it was not.. unassuming and deceiving manipulation for self marketing purposes.

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  DrJohnStMark

  The biggest lie they tell is that a God (in the sense indicated by the Bible) exists, and from that lie you can easily derive what ever smaller ones you wish... like that evolution (in the sense indicated by WT publications) cannot have happened.
  
  But everybody's telling that lie. About the biggest lie the organization has told me... it was about 607 and they did know it's bs. Nobody else is telling that lie.

  The biggest lie an individual JW has told me was by one 'mature' CO who did know better. He said in his talk that the "WT society never said that this generation refers to those who in 1914 were old enough to understand." After his talk I was so amazed that I had to check from my bookshelf that it indeed was a lie. Ever since I've been wondering if that lie was invented by him or if it was written in his instructions from the society.
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  28

  Do you still read the bible?

  by boyzone in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i can't.

  i can't even bring myself to pick up the book anymore but i'm still a christian.. not sure why, just this feeling of guilt when i read it, and guilt if i don't.. anyone else have an aversion to the good book?.

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  DrJohnStMark

  I still read the Bible occasionally. After leaving JWs I tried to avoid any contact with religion in any form, but now I accept it's going to be part of me anyway. I read the Bible a few times a month, sometimes to refute the WT teachings, more often just to check if I had correctly remembered something that flashed in my mind. So I do read the Bible often but then I'm reading other literature all the time, so the the proportion of religious publications of all my reading is marginal... as it should. You can then make your own conclusions about the Bibbe: Is it word of God, authorative and beneficial? One of my favorites is the book of Judges... for example:

  "Jair, a Gileadite... had thirty sons that rode on thirty ass colts..." (Judges 10:3-4) and "Abdon... had forty sons and thirty nephews, that rode on threescore and ten ass colts..." (Judges 12:13-14). So what's the point?

  Well, this might be useful in the Gilead math class as an exercise: "Gee, I can solve this, that's 100 dollars... I mean 100 asses altogether...or is it 200?"
  
  Or, simply, would those stories tell you something about how the book of Judges was compiled?
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  25

  Inability to develop close connections with others

  by Lemon_Lime_Shasta in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all, i'm still pretty new here, but i wanted to talk about something more substansive than low quality generic soda brands (my first post and my logon name).. of all the negative side effects of my dub past, the one that still haunts me the most is my complete inability to develop any sort of depth in my relationships with others.

  i'm not one to blame all my personal problems on the wbts, but i can't help but feel that it was a significant contributing factor.

  i still hate talking about my past, and i work very hard to hide all aspects of my jw past from anyone i meet.

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  DrJohnStMark

  yadda yadda 2: I would compare it to someone from another culture and
  country who moves to a new country but can no longer
  associate with persons of their own culture

  This brings up some memories: First I had some quite hard years after quitting JWs. It was difficult to mix with other people (fortunately I had lots of work to do which kept me basically sane). I hated that as one consequence, or handicap, of being a born-in JW and seldom told anyone about my past.
  
  Then I got a job in another country (with another language) and spend a few years there. This turned out to be a great relief. I was still an alien and had some difficulties in communication with others but now, that's how I felt, it was for an acceptable reason so that anyone could understand it with no explanation needed! After that experience everything has been much easier.
  
  Afterwards I have realized that for most people, if I happen to mention about my JW past, it is irrelevant to them, a curiosity at most. Only another ex-JW can understand what it might mean.
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  25

  Inability to develop close connections with others

  by Lemon_Lime_Shasta in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all, i'm still pretty new here, but i wanted to talk about something more substansive than low quality generic soda brands (my first post and my logon name).. of all the negative side effects of my dub past, the one that still haunts me the most is my complete inability to develop any sort of depth in my relationships with others.

  i'm not one to blame all my personal problems on the wbts, but i can't help but feel that it was a significant contributing factor.

  i still hate talking about my past, and i work very hard to hide all aspects of my jw past from anyone i meet.

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  DrJohnStMark

  After leaving JWs it took some time to learn to just let good things to happen... in JW life everything was supposed to be planned and under control all the time. For some time I missed a couple of life-long friends, not just 'friends', but since that have experienced truly unconditional friendship. It took some time but it had taken time also in the childhood for those relationships to evolve.
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  7

  cherubim

  by nelly136 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  left guarding the garden of eden, so whats supposed to have happened to them?.

  still supposed to be there or got bored and gone home?

  have there ever been any alledged reports of cherubims seen on a horizon somewhere?.

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  DrJohnStMark

  They became unemployed and yhwh arranged them no new job, so they started to fool around...
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  25

  The real harm done by the WTBTS

  by HappyGuy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i first realized that the wtbts was not teaching the truth, i thought "well, they are basically good people and teaching some morals, so what real harm is there?"..

  then i started looking at the opportunity cost.

  by this i mean all the things that a jw does not have access to if they believe the wtbts nonsense.

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  DrJohnStMark

  HappyGuy: Give elders and ministerial servants real traning in counseling, therapy, pscyhology, etc, so that these really could fill the roles that the WTBTS claims for them.

  This posting contained many excellent points. The one on the training of elders is a major one. The elders often have an immense influence on rank-and-file JWs life. With no real education (except on protecting the interests of the society) it is like giving a surgeons knife in the hands of a lumberjack.
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  38

  Does God believe in burning People?

  by ssn587 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  reading the book, you can live forever in paradise earth, on page 81 end of paragraph two it reads, "this raises the question: did almighty god create such a place of torment?

  well, what was god's view when the israelites, following the example of peoples who lived nearby, began to burn their children in fire?

  he explains in his word: "they have built the high places of topheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing i had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.".

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  DrJohnStMark

  You are surely overstating things by saying YHWH was the most cruel god.

  It's been stated somewhere in WT literature that the gods of other nations were much less perfect in their ways (more like imperfect humans) and less omniscient (almost as helpless like us) than YHWH. If that is true, then YHWH would be one of the most cruel gods.

  You would not call a lion killing a zebra cruel, but seeing killer whales have fun with sea lions might make you wonder. The notion of cruelty somehow correlates with intelligence and other capacities.

  In the human world just turning your back and leaving someone to suffer and die if you could help him is considered to be cruel... how about in the world of gods?
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  22

  I never believed in demons

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for the entire time i was a jw (1999-2007) i never believed in demons.. a few times i remember this getting me into small confrontations with jws.

  a jw would talk about how demons were scary and powerful.

  i would argue that i've never seen a demon, and that to be affraid of such things was silly.

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  DrJohnStMark

  Why would belief in demons make you believe more in the God of Brooklyn than in the God of Vatican? In more liberal sects of christianity the role of demons appears not to be so prominent... or control by fear overall.