Posts by peacedog

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

djeggnog:

To none of the other angels did God ever offer a seat at His right hand or to give to any one of them authority over earth's inhabitants, even though all of them are faithful servants of God whose role is to actively minister to the needs of God's servants on earth.

I notice you inserted the word "other": "to none of the OTHER angels".

Verse 5 and 13 say that God never said these things to *ANY* angel; not to any *OTHER* angel.

Read them again:

5God has never said to any of the angels, "You are my Son, because today I have become your Father!" Neither has God said to any of them, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son!"

13God never said to any of the angels, "Sit at my right side until I make your enemies into a footstool for you!"

Your explanation reeks of the Watchtower Society and I must dismiss it for the same reason that I consider the NWT a biased, sectarian translation.

It makes no sense to carry on a biblical debate with a person whose 'solution' to a problematic verse is to change what it says....

To quote debator: "It is funny to see trinitarians jump through hoops to deny the obvious and bible written. Replacing it with the obscure and read-into scripture. Often as in this case resorting to saying the scripture is not saying saying what it obviously is."

Replace "trinitarians" with "JWs" and he's spot-on.

Peace.

144

Bane admits that Christians are to abstain from "eating blood".

by moshe in

from an earlier topic-.

"moshe, ready for another biblical smackdown?.

christians.

peacedog

Titus:

Can blood be considered as organ? Or tissue?

For the purpose of my question, it's irrelevant. Whole blood is transferred during an organ transplant. Why is this acceptable to God whereas transferring via blood transfusion is not? My question is for bane who says "eating" means "taking it in" which includes "putting it in your veins". See his previous posts.

Obviously taking in blood during an organ transplant is also "taking it in" (bane's words). So why is it acceptable?

Fourth time asking.

144

Bane admits that Christians are to abstain from "eating blood".

by moshe in

from an earlier topic-.

"moshe, ready for another biblical smackdown?.

christians.

peacedog

Third time is the charm:

Eating blood, taking it in......that would mean putting it in your veins too

"that would mean"?? Oh..... You mean according to your cult masters.... Cuz we all know it's not in the Bible.

Question: Why is "taking it in" via transfusion forbidden while "taking it in" via organ transplant is not forbidden?

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

Podo, thanks for the info.

I cannot see how you draw that conclusion Kenneson

I can't see how an unbiased reader could not draw that conclusion.

Do you honestly believe that an unbiased, objective reader reading the first chapter of Hebrews for the first time would walk away with the idea that Jesus is an angel?

I ask you again to re-read verse 5 and 13 and explain to me what is the nature of Jesus Christ:

5God has never said to any of the angels, "You are my Son, because today I have become your Father!" Neither has God said to any of them, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son!"

13God never said to any of the angels, "Sit at my right side until I make your enemies into a footstool for you!"

You deny his (biblical) nature is Deity. What's left? Is he an angel, as the JWs teach? Hebrews 1 is written to disprove this very suggestion. As I mentioned, verse 5 and 13 remove any possibility of Jesus being an angel. Again, what's left?

Please explain to me, if Jesus is not YHWH, how he created "all things" - "heaven" and "earth" - and yet YHWH was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" during creation.

I realize you have questions about Ps 110:1. However, imho, if Jesus is not God, then these verses in Hebrews and Isaiah are far, far more difficult to justify than is Ps 110:1 (which I believe Snowbird explained for you).

Peace.

31

As a Man have your Attitudes Towards Women Changed since Exiting JW's ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

being raised in the jehovah's witness cult - i saw so many times what would be referred to as " supportive wives " wait after meetings for an hour, two hours, even more until midnight for husbands who met in backrooms meeting to decide on judicial matters if some individual witness was righteous - or not.

wives of elders were expected to do this to show submission and alleged " respect " for the headship arrangement or eldership of their husbands !

incredible.

peacedog

I am more attracted to them than ever...... not sure it has anything to do with leaving the JWs though..... :)

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

"Deflection"? Podobear, seriously, chill out. I said I'd speak to Ps 110:1 after debator responds to my post. Secondly, why do you continue to ask me to defend the trinity? Did you read my last post? Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

I have missed the point? My friend, NOTHING that you posted changes the fact that according to scripture YHWH was ALONE and BY HIMSELF during creation, and yet Jesus created all things. I have not missed your point; you have missed the target.

If you are in the mood for discussion, please explain your views on the nature of Jesus Christ (given that Hebrews 1:5 and 1:13 eliminate the possibility of his being an angel) while we wait for debator to answer my post.

Peace.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

Podobear,

First of all, I never called myself a "trinitarian" nor did I say I support or believe the doctrine of the trinity.

You said: "Paul quotes here from Psalm 102:25,26 and its contextual application to YHWH. The Hebrew readers are not Trinitarians but SEVERE monotheistic Jews."

You assert the Hebrew readers were not "trinitarians". Be that as it may, the writer of Hebrews took a verse that was written of YHWH and applied it directly to Jesus. In fact, he implied that the verse as written in Psalms (which was clearly in reference to YHWH) was actually a reference to Jesus. Now why would he do such a thing? To the objective reader, this in and of itself is indication of the (biblical) deity of Jesus. Of course, we can go even one step further and consider the verses in Isaiah which clearly state that YHWH was "ALONE" during creation and that he created all things "BY HIMSELF".

You said "Go back in your reading to verse 7: there are three types here, Angels, The Son, and THE LORD". This is actually not true, for I don't see a reference to "THE LORD" anywhere in the first chapter of Hebrews. What I see specifically in verse 7 is an argument against Jesus being an angel (a belief which is held by the JWs, btw...).

Podobear, go back to verse 5 in your reading:

For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"

Here the question is rhetorically asked, "to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father".

Verse 13 poses another rhetorical question:

To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"

So here is yet another conundrum for the JWs: God never said "You are my Son; today I have become your Father" to any angel; He never said "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" to any angel. Yet we know He said both these things to Jesus. Logically, then, Jesus is not an angel. Another JW doctrine goes belly up, and more importantly, you're running out of options when it comes to explaining the nature of Jesus.

Peace.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

Podobear, I'm surprised to hear that. Thanks for asking and I'd be happy to discuss the verse with you (as I'm sure many others on the board would),

However, I'll first wait for debator to explain to me how "Jehovah" created all things "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" while at the same time Jesus created all things. I know he'll do this without "resorting to saying the scripture is not saying saying [sic] what it obviously is" - because he condemns "trinitarians" for doing this very thing. And he would not want to be revealed as a hypocrite.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

It is funny to see trinitarians jump through hoops to deny the obvious and bible written.

Lol, debator.... Absolutely hilarious to see this statement coming from a JW...

What a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Isaiah 44:24:This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the former of you from the belly: "I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me? (NWT)

"BY MYSELF"

"WHO WAS WITH ME"

The NIV has it: "...who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself"

"ALONE"

"BY MYSELF"

But wait!

John 1:3 says: Through him [Jesus] all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Now how can this be? The bible clearly states that Jehovah "ALONE" did everything; he created the heavens and the earth BY HIMSELF. WHO WAS WITH HIM?

Hmm... Maybe Psalm 102:25 and Hebrews 1:10 will clarify your position....

Ps 102:25: Long ago you [Jehovah] laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Heb 1:10: In the beginning, O Lord, you [Jesus] laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Let's recap: "Jehovah" created the heavens and the earth ALONE and BY HIMSELF. Jesus created all things. Jehovah laid the foundations of the earth (ALONE, BY HIMSELF); Jesus laid the foundations of the earth. The heavens are the work of Jehovah's hands (ALONE, BY HIMSELF); the heavens are the work of Jesus' hands.

Did you say something about 'believing in oxymorons', debator?

Start jumping through your hoops debator.....

19

How Long Has The Christ Been Invisibly Present?

by wannabe in

how long has the christ been invisibly present?.

i don't know as i have covered this one before or not, but can't we say that jesus has been invisibly present ever since his ascension in the first century?

didn't he indicate that he was in this following scripture?.

peacedog

Since 1874 1914