Thanks for your reply Addagirl...
when it so happened that our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus king of Persia.
The temple destruction in 586 BCE is confirmed above. Cyrus released the Jews in 537 BCE. At this point Jerusalem had been desolate for 50 years.
This is a direct contradictio. This says the CITY WAS DESOLATE for an interval of 70 years, until Cyrus, which means that the 70 years ended when Cyrus came to the throne. You state this same period is 50 years. So was the desolation just 50 years or 70?
Per the BIBLE, the land must be desolate for 70 years to fulfill the sabbaths of desolation. So Josephus is agreeing with the scriptures regarding the LAND being desolated for 70 years.
Further, Antiquities 11.1.1 clearly shows that the end of servitude of 70 years of those last deported ends in the 1st of Cyrus.
But thanks for sharing this, it explains why you maintain these conclusions in spite of the direct reference. Thus this would be my response in direct support of the 70 years not beginning until the 23rd of Nebuchadnezzar. It is the references at Zechariah 1 and 7. You see, 70 years expire after the desolation of Jerusalem in the 2nd year of Darius, and 70 years expire of mourning for Gedaliah in the 4th year of Darius. Thus there is a two-year gap in the period for mourning over Gedaliah and the destruction of Jerusalem, in the 4th and 2nd year of Darius, respectively. However, in each of these cases the Jews are still in exile. Thus this would confirm Josephus' reference that 70 years of desolation and/or servitude of those last deported would not have ended until 74 years after the fall of Jerusalem, and thus not until the 6th year of Darius. Here are those references:
Zech 1:7 " 12 So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: “O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?”
This is a period when the cities of Judah and Jerusalem had not been "shown mercy". What would be interpret this reference of not having shown mercy to these cities and Jerusalem mean? Obviously, they were not rebuilt yet and still desolated. Thus Jerusalem was still desolated in the 2nd year of Darius.
1 Furthermore, it came about that in the fourth year of Da·ri´us the king the word of Jehovah occurred to Zech·a·ri´ah, on the fourth [day] of the ninth month, [that is,] in Chis´lev.
4 And the word of Jehovah of armies continued to occur to me, saying: 5 “Say to all the people of the land and to the priests, ‘When YOU fasted and there was a wailing in the fifth [month] and in the seventh [month], and this for seventy years, did YOU really fast to me, even me? 6 And when YOU would eat and when YOU would drink, were not YOU the ones doing the eating, and were not YOU the ones doing the drinking? 7 [Should YOU ] not [obey] the words that Jehovah called out by means of the former prophets, while Jerusalem happened to be inhabited, and at ease, with her cities all around her, and [while] the Neg´eb and the She·phe´lah were inhabited?’”
13 “‘And so it occurred that, just as he called and they did not listen, so they would call and I would not listen,’ Jehovah of armies has said. 14 ‘And I proceeded tempestuously to hurl them throughout all the nations that they had not known; and the land itself has been left desolate behind them, with no one passing through and with no one returning; and they proceeded to make the desirable land an object of astonishment.’”
Note this is the 4th year of Darius and the context ends 70 years of mourning for Gedaliah in the 7th month. Yet Jerusalem is still not inhabited. It is still desolated. It is still "left desolate behind them" and this is the 4th year of Darius!!! How can this be? It is easily the case if we interpret Josephus' reference to the 70 years as not beginning until those last deported in year 23 began their 70 years of servitude. Meaning? Meaning, it would not be until a full 74 years after the fall of Jerusalem that the Jews would return in the 1st of Cyrus. Therefore, if the 2nd year of Darius was only 70 years from the fall of Jerusalem and the mourning for Gedaliah was 72 years after the fall of Jerusalem, the Jews still should have been in exile and the land still desolated. This is precisely the context of Zechariah here; that mercy had not yet been shown to Jerusalem nor its cities, still desolated. But then, it was not yet time since 70 years for those last deported would not be over until the 6th year of Darius.
Therefore, the references in Zechariah are not to "Darius I" as you have applied but to Darius the Mede. The Bible clearly shows Darius the Mede began to rule in Babylon immediately after he and Cyrus conquered it. But never is there any mention that the Jews left exile during the reign of Darius the Mede, only when the 1st of Cyrus begins. Cyrus began his rule over Babylon and thus the entire Persian empire only after a 6-year rule by Darius the Mede.
This is consistent with the description of the Ram who represents Medo-Persia and it's two horns: Daniel 8: 3 "When I raised my eyes, then I saw, and, look! a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns. And the two horns were tall, but the one was taller than the other, and the taller was the one that came up afterward."
The Ram represented the Medo-Persian empire, with one horn being the Medes and the other the Persians. But one horn would dominate the other at one point, but the larger horn would dominate after the two horns had become established. Therefore, this simply means that at one point the kingdoms were fairly even but at one point one of the kingdoms would dominate the other. This was when Darius the Mede abdictated his throne over Babylon to Cyrus and thus Cyrus became king over all of Persia and the territory of Babylon as well. This established a brand new royal kingship for both the Medes and the Persians and Cyrus began to count his rulership years over again with year #1. It is during this 1st year that Cyrus released the Jews and others to return to their homeland; 70 years after the last deportation, and 74 years after the fall of Jerusalem, and after a 6-year rule by Darius the Mede who ruled while the Jews were still in exile.
The Bible of course, separates these two rulerships and places the rule of Darius before that of Cyrus. This contradicts the WTS and others who have tried to assert that Darius and Cyrus began ruling at the same time, or even as Olof Jonsson tries to suggest, that Darius and Cyrus were actually the same person!
Daniel 6: 28 And as for this Daniel, he prospered in the kingdom of Da·ri´us and in the kingdom of Cyrus the Persian.
But this gives us insight into another point. That is, why the Bible calls Darius, Darius the MEDE. It is not a formal title. It parallels calling Cyrus, Cyrus the PERSIAN. That's because it was not when Babylon was first conquered that the Jews would be released, but only when Cyrus the PERSIAN began to rule. Thus if we recheck 2 Chronicles we can see that the Jews were not to be released until the ROYALTY OF PERSIA began to rule. That is distinctly not the royalty of the Medes, and thus does not include Darius the Mede.
20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign;
This is why the Bible is very specific in calling Darius, Darius the Mede, and Cyrus, Cyrus the Persian. Darius belonged to the "royalty of the Medes" and Cyrus to the "royalty of the Persia." Thus only when Cyrus began to rule over Babylon after a six-year rule by Darius the Mede did the Jewish 70 years end.
On that note, as well, since the Jews were to serve Nebuchadnezzar and his "sons" we learn that Darius the Mede was actually the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, though his father was a Mede. Further Nabonidus was apparently still at large in Borsippa during the 6-year rule of Darius. That means the Babylonian kingship still continued through Nabonidus as well as Darius the Mede and did not officially end until Cyrus the Persian began to rule.
IN SUMMARY, regardless of how many other relevant or irrelevant 70-year intervals you can pick out, the Bible establishes a 70-year period from the last deportation until the 1st of Cyrus that includes a 6-year rule of Darius the Mede after the fall of Babylon. This is also the traditional history provided by Josephus in Antiquities.
There is some confusion though when Josephus mentions a 50-year period of desolation in connection with Cyrus at Against Apion 1.21. But this does not change the 70-year reference of desolation, since in the same work in the previous paragraph of 1:19 he notes the 70-year period again. Thus as was customary with the Bible, the co-rulership of a king is not often distinguished from his sole rulership, or two different kingship dates are often referenced. In this case, we know that Cyrus ruled for 20 years over Persia before becoming king over Babylon as well. So in the period of 70 years of desolation, a period of 50 years ends when Cyrus becomes king in Persia; thus the 50-year reference is for that period. This does not contradict the 70-year period that ends after Cyrus has ruled for 20 years. Thus you can express periods of desolation in terms of the 1st of Cyrus which can either be 50 years or 70 years, because Cyrus had two separate rulerships. 50 years of desolation ends when Cyrus first becomes king over Persia excluding Babylon, and 70 years end when he becomes king over Babylon and Persia as well. So Josephus is not contradicting himself when he mentions a 50-year period of desolation in 1:21 and a 70-year period of desolation in 1:19 of Against Apion.
Thanks, again, Addagirl, for posting your information about the 70 years. It helps to understand why some come to various conclusions.
JC
