Posts by JCanon

24

R. Furuli, Vol. 2 Chronology Book and the Kandalanu Saturn Tablet

by AnnOMaly in

some of the problems with furuli's analysis of vat 4956's lunar data have already been discussed here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145519/1.ashx.

the saturn tablet dated to kandalanu's reign (appendix e, pp.

logical and scientific methodology applied here?

JCanon

The discrepancy suggests that you cannot have two different positions for Saturn allocated to the same Julian date - your error rather than the tablet's.

The dates in the tablet are a MONTH OFF, astronomically speaking.

It's like the "error" in the VAT4956, line 18. The tablet was broken off but basically identified a planet "immediately below the Bright Star Behind the Lion's foot." The context in this case was on the 15th, but even without that date, there would be only one time when this planetary and lunar coordination would take place. It's like saying the Moon was "4 cubits" below a certain star. That only happen within a few hours, period. So there's little flexibility.

Same with the Saturn text. Two positions for Saturn are described within the internval of a month, the first month it is behind the "Furrow" of Virgo and the second time it is halfway BETWEEN Virgo (furrow ends Virgo) and Libra. That is consistent with specific dates. Those dates match month 7 and 8, but not month 6 and 7 as it appears in the text. There is an "error" therefore, in the text. Period. You just can't give a date and then describe the location of a planet in the wrong place. But since we already know the dating is suspect and there is so much other hanky panky going on with all these texts anyway, it's just up for grabs why the dating is off. I don't know precisely why it might be off, but it could be counter-intelligence sabbotage by those wanting to protect the original chronology.

The Jews do that all the time. Like publishing the rabbinical date of 352 BCE for year 6 of Darius I, the year the temple was completed. NOBODY, even the Jews believes that ridiculous date that close to the Greek takeover of the Persian Empire by Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the original date for this event in 534 BCE is exactly 82 years later than the revised date of 516 BCE. In turn, 352 BCE is exactly 82 years after 534 BCE? Connection? Possibly. We can't rule it out. No more than we can absolutely rule out his subtle mismatch by one month of Saturn's position as a clue of the revision. Keep in mind that lots of people knew about the revisions. This was a conspiracy to fool the Greeks. They loved the secret. Insiders who knew the truth and recognized the truth right in front of the faces of the "uninitiated". They are LAUGHING at those who take this seriously but like to tease them with an apparent "error" like this. It's sort of an "in your face, just how smart are you?" kind of thing, like the seeing eye pyramid right there on the dollar bill. It's there. You see it. You know its from the Freemasons. But what else does it tell you?

Further an astronomer knows this is an unlikely "mistake." When redating astronical texts it's just a matter of reassigning the historical information. The astronomical information is never revised. So the fact that the position for Saturn and the dates for this event don't match suggest a deliberate deception or sign of a revision, or like I said, potential "sabbotage". The fact that the copyists would change the dating hints to revisionism. It's indirect but still there. It cripples this text as a valid chronological reference.

Watch this: I know the dates are one month off. Therefore will I accept it as a valid reference? Hell no! It's phony and fraudulent. Now I'm an AMATEUR and I know that much. What does that say about everybody else? I tried putting my hands over my ears so I couldn't hear arguments about the Saturn text but I was laughing to hard and had to catch myself as I fell to the floor....

JCanon

12

Revelation BookStudy Change Of Thought???

by LouBelle in

hey all.

right i honestly don't keep up to date what is happening with the jws' changes of thought.

my aunt - who is now listening to reason & is starting to search outside of jw beliefs, mentioned that they were at their bookstudy and the brother said ""we'll be skipping the next paragraph, as there is a change in thought""".

JCanon

ROFL!!! This is soooo FUN and sooooo FUNNY at the same time! I checked the PDF and the only paragraph I saw that was to be totally deleted and thus skipped was this one: Chapter 18, Paragraph 17:

As John goes on to show, the great earthquake is accompanied by terrifying events that involve even the heavens. He says: "And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind casts its unripe figs." (Revelation 6:12b, 13) What a striking phenomenon! It represents the culmination of the catastrophic situation that Jesus had earlier prophesied about at Matthew 24:29. Can you imagine the frightening darkness that would result if the prophecy were fulfilled literally? No more warm, comforting sunlight by day! No more friendly, silvery moonlight by night! And the myriad stars would no longer twinkle against the velvety backdrop of the sky. Instead, there would be cold, relentless blackness.

FREELANCE GUESS AND ANALYSIS: My best guess why this paragraph is skipped is because the WTS has had two interpretations of Matthew 24:29. This is connected with when the "sign of the son of man appears" and those who see it beating themselves in lamentation. First it's the wicked who see Christ coming about to destroy them, so they are freaking out. But then someone figured out this was "sympathetic" recognition of the messiah and these are some actual last-minute converts. It's also possible this paragraph seems to interpret the "darkness" literally rather than figuratively. I don't think they are really sure about how this prophecy is fulfilled so they decided just to skip it entirely for now.

But I'll tell you what it really referes to. It refers to spiritual darkness of the temple organization, who is represented as the fig tree. This is paralleled by the ten virgins who all "nod" and their lamps dim just before the messiah arrives. This is when Christ comes to separate the wheat from the weeds, the sheep from the goats and harvest the grapes. But it is also the time when he treads the great winepress of the unfaithful anointed. It's a time when the messiah, as Lazarus, torments the "Rich Man". The reference to the moon turning into blood is a simple reference to an eclipse as well, generally meaning spiritual insight would be withheld from the WTS and they would be thrown into spiritual darkness when the messiah arrives and identifies them as the "evil slave," "false prophet," and "man of lawlessness."

In the next verse it mentions that a scroll will be rolled up:

"And

the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island were removed from their places."

This represents books of the Bible that had been long considered to be part of the official Bible canon that would now be removed from the Bible as inspired. Those scrolls "rolled up" that would thus be dismissed by the messiah as non-inspired are the three books not cross-referenced by the NT Bible writers which are: ECCLESIASTES, ESTHER and SONG OF SOLOMON. Note this reference in the "Insight" volume about identifying apocryphal writings, one of my favorite quotes:

Additional

ancient testimony. One of the chief external evidences against the canonicity of the Apocrypha is the fact that none of the Christian Bible writers quoted from these books. While this of itself is not conclusive, inasmuch as their writings are also lacking in quotations from a few books recognized as canonical, such as Esther, Ecclesiastes, and The Song of Solomon, yet the fact that not one of the writings of the Apocrypha is quoted even once is certainly significant. (Insight, "Apocrypha" page 121 (Vol 1))

HELLLOOO? !!!! Hint, hint! Esther, Ecclesiastes and SOS are NOT inspired. Esther is historically inaccurate and SOS is clearly a pagan book. Sooo.

Anyway, as prophesied, at this point the WTS is totally DARK. No spiritual food coming from them now. And they are totally confused about what is going on spiritually. They have the wrong date for the 2nd coming, they think the messiah's second coming is invisible when he appears in the flesh as the Bible says, they think they are the FDS when they are the failed FDS and the "evil slave" and Jehovah is not giving them any light. In fact, he is going out of his way to EMBARRASS them! Case in point, the WTS chronology by the time of Solomon is some 67 years earlier than the pagan chronology, which itself is 54 years earlier than the Biblical timeline. We now have scientific confirmation for the year of Shishak's invasion based upon RC14 dating! Archaeologists are already criticizing the Bible for events that occur just 54 years too early, like David and Solomon which are not supported archaeologically for the earlier secular-based dates. So it is a TOTAL JOKE that JWs are dating these events even earlier. They add 20 years during the NB Period and then stubbornly decided among themselves that there were no overlapping co-rulerships when the secular chronologists include some 47-49 years of co-rulerships. That results in the WTS' dates being 67 years earlier than the secular dates. All the archaeology in place now, though, points to later times, completely consistent with and confirmatory of the Biblical timeline.

http://www.geocities.com/ed_maruyama/rehov872.html

This was FUN!! Thanks.

JCanon

50

The "Revelation Book" adhesive cut and paste instruction kit!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

the revelation book adhesive cut and paste instruction kit!

this pdf-"kit" was sent to us from a friend of ours who is an elder in england who is thoroughly disgusted.

the file is being sent throughout many congregations by email to assist the witnesses with "corrections" for their "revelation" book.

JCanon

ROFL!!! This is soooo FUN and sooooo FUNNY at the same time! I checked the PDF and the only paragraph I saw that was to be totally deleted and thus skipped was this one: Chapter 18, Paragraph 17:

As John goes on to show, the great earthquake is accompanied by terrifying events that involve even the heavens. He says: "And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind casts its unripe figs." (Revelation 6:12b, 13) What a striking phenomenon! It represents the culmination of the catastrophic situation that Jesus had earlier prophesied about at Matthew 24:29. Can you imagine the frightening darkness that would result if the prophecy were fulfilled literally? No more warm, comforting sunlight by day! No more friendly, silvery moonlight by night! And the myriad stars would no longer twinkle against the velvety backdrop of the sky. Instead, there would be cold, relentless blackness.

FREELANCE GUESS AND ANALYSIS: My best guess why this paragraph is skipped is because the WTS has had two interpretations of Matthew 24:29. This is connected with when the "sign of the son of man appears" and those who see it beating themselves in lamentation. First it's the wicked who see Christ coming about to destroy them, so they are freaking out. But then someone figured out this was "sympathetic" recognition of the messiah and these are some actual last-minute converts. It's also possible this paragraph seems to interpret the "darkness" literally rather than figuratively. I don't think they are really sure about how this prophecy is fulfilled so they decided just to skip it entirely for now.

But I'll tell you what it really referes to. It refers to spiritual darkness of the temple organization, who is represented as the fig tree. This is paralleled by the ten virgins who all "nod" and their lamps dim just before the messiah arrives. This is when Christ comes to separate the wheat from the weeds, the sheep from the goats and harvest the grapes. But it is also the time when he treads the great winepress of the unfaithful anointed. It's a time when the messiah, as Lazarus, torments the "Rich Man". The reference to the moon turning into blood is a simple reference to an eclipse as well, generally meaning spiritual insight would be withheld from the WTS and they would be thrown into spiritual darkness when the messiah arrives and identifies them as the "evil slave," "false prophet," and "man of lawlessness."

In the next verse it mentions that a scroll will be rolled up:

"And

the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island were removed from their places."

This represents books of the Bible that had been long considered to be part of the official Bible canon that would now be removed from the Bible as inspired. Those scrolls "rolled up" that would thus be dismissed by the messiah as non-inspired are the three books not cross-referenced by the NT Bible writers which are: ECCLESIASTES, ESTHER and SONG OF SOLOMON. Note this reference in the "Insight" volume about identifying apocryphal writings, one of my favorite quotes:

Additional

ancient testimony. One of the chief external evidences against the canonicity of the Apocrypha is the fact that none of the Christian Bible writers quoted from these books. While this of itself is not conclusive, inasmuch as their writings are also lacking in quotations from a few books recognized as canonical, such as Esther, Ecclesiastes, and The Song of Solomon, yet the fact that not one of the writings of the Apocrypha is quoted even once is certainly significant. (Insight, "Apocrypha" page 121 (Vol 1))

HELLLOOO? !!!! Hint, hint! Esther, Ecclesiastes and SOS are NOT inspired. Esther is historically inaccurate and SOS is clearly a pagan book. Sooo.

Anyway, as prophesied, at this point the WTS is totally DARK. No spiritual food coming from them now. And they are totally confused about what is going on spiritually. They have the wrong date for the 2nd coming, they think the messiah's second coming is invisible when he appears in the flesh as the Bible says, they think they are the FDS when they are the failed FDS and the "evil slave" and Jehovah is not giving them any light. In fact, he is going out of his way to EMBARRASS them! Case in point, the WTS chronology by the time of Solomon is some 67 years earlier than the pagan chronology, which itself is 54 years earlier than the Biblical timeline. We now have scientific confirmation for the year of Shishak's invasion based upon RC14 dating! Archaeologists are already criticizing the Bible for events that occur just 54 years too early, like David and Solomon which are not supported archaeologically for the earlier secular-based dates. So it is a TOTAL JOKE that JWs are dating these events even earlier. They add 20 years during the NB Period and then stubbornly decided among themselves that there were no overlapping co-rulerships when the secular chronologists include some 47-49 years of co-rulerships. That results in the WTS' dates being 67 years earlier than the secular dates. All the archaeology in place now, though, points to later times, completely consistent with and confirmatory of the Biblical timeline.

http://www.geocities.com/ed_maruyama/rehov872.html

This was FUN!! Thanks.

JCanon

24

R. Furuli, Vol. 2 Chronology Book and the Kandalanu Saturn Tablet

by AnnOMaly in

some of the problems with furuli's analysis of vat 4956's lunar data have already been discussed here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145519/1.ashx.

the saturn tablet dated to kandalanu's reign (appendix e, pp.

logical and scientific methodology applied here?

JCanon

Thanks, again, Alleymom for the calendar of months, but just for some "trivia" there is a potential issue that now arises because of 541 BCE.

545 = 8 April
544 = 28 March
543 = 16 April
542 = 5 April
541 = 25 March540 = 13 April
539 = 3 April

Per this list, the first month of the year began on March 25th. The vernal equinox fell on the 26th. Problem is, the theory behind the SK400 is that the precise lunar times for the two eclipses mentioned belong to 541 BCE. That is, the SK400 mentions two eclipses, one occurring 3:20 after night and the other occurring 5 hours before morning. "Morning" and "night" are offsets for division of the night used by the Babylonians. Fortunately we can calculate this quite precisely thanks to none other than PTOLEMY. That's because Ptolemy gives us the precise time for this first eclipse which is "one hour before midnight." That means the offset is exactly 32 minutes.

For instance, sunset occurred at 7:09 p.m. The offset to "night" beginning 32 minutes after sunset would be 7:41. Then the eclipse happens 3 hours and 20 minutes after that which is 10:61, which is 11:01. Rounded to the closest 4 minutes this is "one hour before midnight." The second eclipse is 5 hours before morning. Sunrise was at 7:19 a.m. which is 6:79 from which we subtract 32 minutes which gives us 6:47 a.m. We then subtract 5 hours to get the time of the eclipse which is 1:47. We can now calcualte the precise interval between these two eclipses. Since the first one was one hour before midnight, we just add an hour to 1:47 to make it 2:47. To be more specific thought, since it was 11:01 and thus 59 minutes we can adjust that to 2:46.

The 523 BCE eclipses are 4:46 apart. So there is a mismatch, but these eclipses occur in an 18-year-11-day cycle, so in 541 BCE when we test the interval it turns out to be exactly 2:46! This makes a cryptic reference to the original chronology because the context is "year 7" of Kambyses. Year 7 of Kambyses would not have occurred in 541 BCE, but year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar would have. LIke I said, the nature of these encryptions suggest Jewish involvement since the rule of Nebuchadnezzar in particular is well documented in the Bible.

At any rate, to get to the point of the earlier dating, for the eclipses to occur in the months of Tammuz and Tebet as the text indicates and which does occur in those months in 523 BCE, this would have to be a year that likewise starts after the vernal equinox, and not before. This is especially true if this in fact was the original reference times for these eclipses. Therefore, besides the Saturn text and numerous other texts attempting to redate the NB Period, it would seem there was some reason to manipulate the months of the year from their original times, beginning some years earlier when the likely custom was to always date the year after the spring equinox. The SK400 vs the new intercalary month list suggest that the surviving calendar has also been manipulated and altered.

Of course, dating year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar to 541 BCE is the precise dating you get when the VAT4956 double-dates year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar to 511 BCE. With the invalidation of the Saturn text because of misdating, and the double-dating in the SK400 and VAT4956, the Bible's chronology that dates the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE is quite well established and unchallenged by any valid astronomical text reference.

JCanon

24

R. Furuli, Vol. 2 Chronology Book and the Kandalanu Saturn Tablet

by AnnOMaly in

some of the problems with furuli's analysis of vat 4956's lunar data have already been discussed here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145519/1.ashx.

the saturn tablet dated to kandalanu's reign (appendix e, pp.

logical and scientific methodology applied here?

JCanon

There is a potential problem with the Saturn reference now that we are talking about when the year begins, whether early or late. And that is, the actual Saturn positions are a month off! Instead of occurring in months 6 and 7, they actually occur in months 7 and 8. If the year began early in 640 BCE then we'd be looking at an astronomical match even one month later in month 8 and 9. So the early dating doesn't help the Saturn text.

Here are the graphics showing the precise "astronomical" match. The technical difference is that the "furrow" is assigned by scholars to the single star alpha-Virginis. Which might be okay for general reference, but the star takes it name from the actual furrow shape cuased by the stars in Virgo, thus the actual "furrow" becomes the default reference when Saturn is described "between" the furrow and Libra. It is an awkward description to describe this position simply between alpha-Virginis and Libra since alpha-Virginis is well within Virgo.

Here is the actual text descriptions, which you can see from the graphics fit the dates for the 5th but not the month. The discrepancy suggests the Saturn text is fraudulent and cryptically misdated by one month for some reason.

SATURN TEXT: Year 8, month 6, day 5, behind the Furrow, last appearance. [Year 8], month 7, day 5, "between the Furrow and the Balance (Libra), first appearance.

MY BEST SPECULATION ON THIS TEXT: My best assessment for the text, since it clearly is attempting to represent fraudulent redating, is that perhaps the Jews were involved with creating this text and sabbotaged it by manipulating the month, changing it from 7 and 8 to 6 and 7. Jewish cryptic reference often use apparent "errors" in connection with a cryptic reference. Both the VAT4956 and the SK400 can be considered as anti-revision texts since they double-date back to the original chronology in some way. The mistading of the Saturn7 text invalidates it as a legitimate text, though it is clear it's initial purpose was for redating of the Neo-Babylonian Period. This confirms as well, it was created during the Seleucid Period. The style of writing for older texts and the revised newer ones is thus a key factor in confirming that they are revisionist documents.

Of note, once it was clear the VAT4956 was going to be problematic, partly because of the double-dating to 511 BCE and partly because it is clear original translators Sachs and Hunger deliberately misrepresented what was in line 18 of the text, a shift to using the Saturn text for dating seems to be occurring. It should have been just a straightforward revisionist text representing the new chronology, but the misdating by a month raises suspicions of its authenticity. The only reason why it would have been misdated by a month would be if some interest were trying to subvert the revisionism. The nature of this kind of "error" suggests Jewish counter-intelligence at work.

Otherwise, it's a misdated text without explanation. ???? Like the VAT4956 and the SK400, though, the Saturn text just seems like a clevery sabbotaged text. It certainly is not an original or legitimate text with the wrong astronomical information. As a result the Saturn text is out of the loop for verifying or contradicting any kind of chronology and sort of confirms the text contains false dating information.

JCanon

24

R. Furuli, Vol. 2 Chronology Book and the Kandalanu Saturn Tablet

by AnnOMaly in

some of the problems with furuli's analysis of vat 4956's lunar data have already been discussed here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145519/1.ashx.

the saturn tablet dated to kandalanu's reign (appendix e, pp.

logical and scientific methodology applied here?

JCanon

Thanks ALLEYMOM for the specific reference. There are references out there that state different things, it is good to actually have a specific reference. I often quote this one from Wikipedia, in fact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/760s_BC

"June 15, 763 BC - A solar eclipse at this date (in month Sivan) is used to fix the chronology of the Ancient Near East. However, it should be noted that it requires Nisan 1 to fall on March 20, 763 BC, which was 8 to 9 days before the vernal equinox (March 28/29 at that time) and Babylonians never started their calendar year before the spring equinox. Main article: Assyrian eclipse"

1

Israeli Says Elusive Biblical Wall Found

by momzcrazy in

JCanon

Interesting the historical incompentence out there. Nehemiah did not rebuild the wall destroyed by the Bablonians. A new wall was rebuilt already just 16 years after the Jews returned from Babylon. All Nehemiah did was repair the walls. It only took 52 days. Seems like an archaeologist would know there is no way a double wall around a city could have been built in just 52 days!

But still the discovery is wonderful since it must be the original ball built after the Jews returned. It's just a technical detail I suppose.

Thanks for the post. I wrote to someone who knows Mazar to let her know she should realize the wall was built earlier before she says too much about her discovery. Clearly she doesn't realize, even though it's slightly embarassing that she thinks a wall was built in just 52 days!

JC

24

R. Furuli, Vol. 2 Chronology Book and the Kandalanu Saturn Tablet

by AnnOMaly in

some of the problems with furuli's analysis of vat 4956's lunar data have already been discussed here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145519/1.ashx.

the saturn tablet dated to kandalanu's reign (appendix e, pp.

logical and scientific methodology applied here?

JCanon

"[footnote]* There seem to be two years before Nabopolassar without a king where Nabopolassar had some power. This could cause different views as to which year was his accession year, and that could again cause some to count his traditional accession year as his first year of reign."

Hmmmm, thanks for this reference!

JCanon

24

2012

by Vernon Williams in

hey guys,.

an ex jw friend of ours ask about 2012. her sister went to a ca and the/a speaker(s) mentioned 2012?

this friend of ours was asking if i had noticed anything on this board about that date.

JCanon

Thanks SINIS for the link about the 2012 Mayan Calendar.

Turns out, by comparison, the specific event is the winter solstice on December 21, 2012. By comparison the time when the messiah becomes flesh both at the first and second coming is around the time of the winter solstice. Interestingly, even the WTS' "6th Volume, of Studies in the Scriptures points out that December 25th is the "Annunciation" date. That is, when the spirit of Christ actually was transferred and combined with humankind. Likewise, the second coming occurred sometime during December 25-26 in 1992.

Just for FUN, here's the astrographic of this date, showing the winter solstice but also the sun in the middle of the Milky Way, which is believe to be the focal point for the Mayan calendar's end-point in 2012. The Milky Way is brightest when in Sagittarius, which is where the sun is located on December 21, 2012. The winter solstice connection to the messiah seems the only loose connection with this event and perhaps the millennium or Christ.

Just thought some might want to see the cosmological significance associated with the 2012 Mayan reference.

JCanon

24

2012

by Vernon Williams in

hey guys,.

an ex jw friend of ours ask about 2012. her sister went to a ca and the/a speaker(s) mentioned 2012?

this friend of ours was asking if i had noticed anything on this board about that date.

JCanon

Freyd:

Quote: "The relative chronology in the Bible from the Exodus back to Adam is accurate, so basically 1975 is 127 years too early." hmmm...so 1874 + 127 = 2001 Isn't that the year that......?

The little "problem" here is that the witness organization was to serve as the "temple in its right condition" organization, that is come into place after 2300 evenings and mornings representing the last 110 years of a "time, time, and half time" apostasy period ending in 1996 (bla, bla, bla...right). But this same temple organization was said to be corrupted by Satan from the very beginning. It was the field sown with fine seed after which the Devil sowed in weeds, so that the new blades of wheat came up with weeds. The decision was not to separate the two until the harvest time, "let them both grow together." SO, therefore, the witness organization on one hand would have rather profound truths, end up preaching the "good news" and sporting some dates, but at the same time they would end up with some false prophecies or some inaccurate applications.

What has now happened though, is dates like 1874 and 1914 remain Biblically relevant but for slightly different reasons than what the WTS originally claimed. So in effect, they ended up focussing on these critical dates but for some of the wrong reasons. But that suggests that God was still using them to focus on the chronology that was relevant even if it as not that accurate. That's why OBVES can't just be swept under the rug when he comes up with dating that focusses on Biblically correct dating. The same would apply to the WTS, the indirect reference has to be considered as a potential cryptic fulfillment/notification. Just in passing, for instance, 1874 is 120 years from 1994 so represents the 120-year generation of Noah. Per JIOR doctrine this is the time of the Biblical reference of "Michael stands up" (Daniel 1:1). That is, after sitting at the right hand of God and waiting all this time from the 1st century, he then stands up to begin the process leading to the second coming. That means identifying the "temple class", etc. getting the preaching work going, etc. OF course 1914 is still a legitimate date for the beginning of the "last generation" of 80 years (from 1914-1994) or 40 years from 1914-1954 to fulfill that "last generation" prophecy of Matthew. The last generation begins with a world war, so that qualifies 1914. It is not the end of the gentile times, however, which occurs in 1947, and it is not the date for the second coming which occurs 45 years after the end of the gentile times in 1992. We now, of course, have the VAT4956 confirmation of the original Babylonian chronology dating year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar in 511 BCE which means the 1st of Cyrus falls in 455 BCE as the Bible indicates. So all is well. In the meantime there are lots of secret societies belonging to Christ out there, various factions of the JIOR and so their messages are going to cryptic. So anybody who is coming up with 2012 or 2011 has to be checked out. This Mayan calendar is a legitimate reference as well, since some of the events connected with Christ are astronomically relevant: "signs in the stars and sun and moon" could be a reference to astronomical coordination for God's dating plan, etc. So even though the WTS is apostate now, secret JIOR factions could be creating some focus on this date, regardless. It's sort of like a confirmation from all these cryptic sources that something significant would happen in connection with this date or prior to it. All we can do is watch as usual, but pretending its just another wrong date as if Armageddon will never coming or that the messiah didn't arrive in 1992 is not something someone who expects to survive Armageddon or who believes the Bible would want to do. So, if 2012 joins 1914 and 1874 as clouded but Biblically significant dating coming from them it's still paid attention to. This dating is showing up in too many different settings connected with the witnesses or XJWs. By the way, here's something new. The Bible often parallels references. The original "cut off" that began the "great tribulation" for the Jews was a 7-year period from 1940-1947. But these days were cut short after the prophesied two-thirds of the Jews had been exterminated by the fall of 1944. If the days will be cut short of the tribulation again, and 2012 is the year we expect the tribulation to be over by our best guesses then we could presume the "great tribulation" is another 7-year period, called "one hour" in the Bible (3-1/2 years is a "half hour" per Revelation). In that case, the tribulation could be presumed to have begun 7 years earlier than 2012, meaning the fall of 2005. If this period has been cut in half then we would be looking at a date for the great tribulation potentially starting in the mid-week year of the 7-year period from 2005-2012. Here is a comparison chart showing how the "great tribulation" is paralleled by Christ's Passion. The "3 days and 3 nights" match the 2-1/2 years of "silence" after the Holocaust in the Spring of 1945 and the restoration of the Jews to Palestine afte Fall of 1947.