Posts by JCanon

20

Part 2: A@G interviewed in WT Comments Video

by Awakened at Gilead in

in case you missed this on other threads, check out part 2..... lance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i91g1v_mrr4.

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JCanon

I must say, you reminded me of many things in my own life. Especially when you said you wanted to "go where the need was great." I grew up in Compton where in a matter of a few years the congregations kept dividing almost every 3 or 4 years. Our territory was worked every week. So those wanting to pioneer and hoping to do more than spend hours standing in front of some store would seek to go "where the need was greater." So when I was 16 I arranged to go to Arkansas where I knew a brother who had gone to "where the need was greater." But that summer was eventful. I think I was a regular pioneer too at the time (I pioneered while I was in the 9th grade). That is the summer when I think what is described as "make the truth YOUR OWN" happened. I connected more directly with the Bible and Jehovah and the WTS became less of a mediator for me. Of course, there was lots and lots of personal study.

I wasn't much of a follower though and sort of had a knack of seeing errors. Once I wrote the Society about an error they had made in the Watchtower. They acknowledged the error and told me to "correct my personal copy" and generally the local brothers were not happy about my pointing out the error. So I had the advantage of not being all that impressed with the WTS. I was old enough in the truth to know how many changes they made so figured that's just the way it goes. The light gets brighter. But that also means if I see something I think might be wrong, I can accept the WTS will just need to correct it later. It didn't mean they were not Jehovah's organization.

Also, I was very impressed with the spiritual or I should say, "spiritistic" concepts going on at Headquarters. I was on tour and in New York and visited Bethel. I had always wanted to do so since childhood. I was alone so I got my personal guide. He told me that the site where Brooklyn Bethel was is the site where George Washington crossed over at a critical time that ended up helping to win the war so that America could be a place where freedom of religion could flourish which was necessary for the organization. But he told me Jehovah had caused a thick fog to arise at that very spot to help George Washington. That spiritual level of the anointed brothers who believes Jehovah interacts with holy spirit directly with them seemed to stand out. I often wonder what it is like in that pretigious company on a daily basis. I did also visit the library as well.

But it makes sense the Writing Committee ends up doing most of the writing since they have so much to cover with the bi-weekly magazines. If I had questions I directed it to the Writing Committee. Of course, they were consistently rude in their replies and often sent copies to the local congregation. They were so apostate paranoid.

Anyway, at least you're out. I became anointed in the summer of 1992 and Jehovah "disfellowshipped" the GB on November 10, 1992. Unfortunate. But, they've become the evil slave so that's the way it goes. It's just a farce organization now.

I know, because of the impact of the WTS that when people leave, they don't seem to join other religions. Some maintain their faith in God independently, but many tend to take a secularist concept and stop believing. I can see how one can be pushed in that direction if the organization you believed was the "true religion" failed in that regard, and others as well, offer little. Because I had a closer personal relationship with Jehovah and only a relative devotion to the WTS I could bear the arrangement without losing my faith in Jehovah. I saw the organization as imperfect yet chosen, like the Jews. Once becoming anointed, though, the relationship with Jehovah is more direct and only technically connected to the organization, so I was fortunate in that sense, that I didn't lose faith in the reality of God or that the Bible was his word. But I'm such an extremist! I got through it because I'm profoundly absolute and was more studious than many. It wasn't good enough just to cover the material, I had to understand it and "make it my own." It got me into trouble, made me not that popular, but certainly has paid off in the end because I still have my faith in Jehovah and the Bible. I know--"good for ME" but, well, I'm happy.

Take care. Thanks, again for sharing!

JohnC

24

Need help responding to a pioneer

by megs in

i posed the question to a pioneer who had been giving me bible studies.

my question was quite simple: "in john 3:16, doesn't it say that whosoever believeth in him will have eternal life?

my understanding of this scripture is that eternal life is given to all who believe in christ and believe he died to save sinners.

JCanon

In arguing that Jesus is Michael the archangel, the Watchtower Society also points to another verse that does not use the name Michael but says that “the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet...” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NWT). However, the expression “with an archangel’s voice” simply means that the archangel, like God’s trumpet, will herald the coming of the Lord, not that the Lord is an archangel.

Oh PALEEZE! Your vivid imagination will not get past THIS scripture.

Ever heard of VOICE recognition? It's a whole scientific field. A person's VOICE is like their face or their fingerprint. It is unique. People are recognized by their voice. So why on earch would Christ not use his OWN voice to raise the dead? Why does he need the voice of Michael? In what way is Michael's voice so much more impressive than that of Jesus' own voice.

Plus how ridiculous is it to compare the trumpet of God that Jesus caries with the archangel's voice? You can can give me a musical instrument to use, which I can use as authority that that instrument carries. But can you give me your VOICE? No. It's too personal.

So when it says Jesus comes with an archangel's voice it is complementing Jesus for the authority of that voice that he has, which is unique, which is because there is ONLY ONE ARCHANGEL. Obviously that archangel is Jesus Christ. C'mon, he's not going to be using someone else's voice, right?

So Jesus, YES, is Michael the Archangel. End of story. Elvis heard this and left the building right after this, so....

JohnC

20

Part 2: A@G interviewed in WT Comments Video

by Awakened at Gilead in

in case you missed this on other threads, check out part 2..... lance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i91g1v_mrr4.

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JCanon

Hi Awakened... I am ROFL!!!! You don't realize how this comes off...

Thanks for keeping your post short and to the point...
I've definitely given up on JWs... the Bible... looking at it outside of the JW box... seems to be a collection of historical documents from the Judeo-Christian civilization, sometimes true, sometimes embellished... but not necessarily a moral guide nor a prophetic book to live my life by...
And I don't believe in Jehover- the great WTS-God anymore either... I'm agnostic, and was even an agnostic as a JW, but found it hard to reconcile with my JW faith....

Your position is very COLLEGIATE and higher education. College people, prophessors, etc. always take the notion of handling the Bible as just a collection of literary works, presumed to be revised over time and just interesting literature. They consider it the "word of god." So while we were so glad (even me) you did manage to get a degree and hopefully a good job, the very thing the WTS warned against for going to college, you've become a cliche! You've become an agnostic.

But I understand it. The WTS offers the best potential basis for thinking the Bible is true and God's word. They have the best understanding. If they are guessing and failing, then what? Where can you go? On the other side of the fense, the universities are looking at things very pragmatically and challenging us, especially in the absence of any overt indication to the contratry, that the Bible is just another book, flawed and manmade. Your higher education facilitated those concepts.

Prophetically, this is the prophesied as the river disgorged from Satan to drown the woman. Obviously, this river of propaganda is quite powerful, otherwise it wouldn't be a threat. BUT... it is propaganda. It would be different if they told the truth or the whole story. But they don't. I have renown Assyriologists Herman Hunger and Abraham Sachs lying about what's in the ancient VAT4956!! Researchers have discovered from time to time, quite evidently that Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king, but the British Museum, who hoards ancient artifacts from the Middle East, suppress these people.

Anyway, I wish you the best under the circumstances, it couldn't have been an easy choice. And thanks for sharing. We seldom get a close up report on the reality of the WTS at Headquarters, and we are all certainly on the same page that these guys are spin doctors and working the corporate religious angle. They are sort of like Judas who got overwhelmed with handling the building of new Kingdom Halls and managing the finances and printing and lost track of the spiritual focus. Now Jehovah has kicked them out.

I particularly appreciated your comment about what one said that they KNOW THINGS that they can't reveal. I wonder if he was referring to the idea that they understoold, later on, that Christ would arrive in the flesh but could not expound that teaching at this point?

Oh well!

Obviously, I'm out of the loop and immune to "higher education" jive propganda because I've spoken with God personally!! Like Moses! Trying to convince Moses that evolution is a viable explanation to live won't go far. All those doubts and theories exist only in the VACUUM of God not showing up personally to prove himself. Problem is, he does for some of us, so we have no doubts and consider higher education a bunch of what it actually is, a lot of bull.

Thanks, again for sharing, but it's so funny. The WTS says "don't go to the college"; you do and end up an agnostic!! I guess they were right about some things......

JohnC

20

Part 2: A@G interviewed in WT Comments Video

by Awakened at Gilead in

in case you missed this on other threads, check out part 2..... lance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i91g1v_mrr4.

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JCanon

The "end of the gentile times" ends at 1290 days. The messiah arrives at 1335 days. So the end of the gentile times actually happens 45 years before the end if the "7 times"!!!
C'mon, JC, that's worse logic than the WTS GB buggers....
A@G

Really? ROFL. Well, I guess I should have noted that I consider the end of the gentile times to have occurred in 1947, like many others do, not even witnesses, since that is the time the Jews were restored to their homeland. So my defense on that particular issue, it seems to me that the "gentile times" ended more academically in 1947 than in 1914. JWs claim the gentile times ends invisibly when Christ begins to rule in heaven, even though the Jews themselves, who are the focus of the "appointed times of the nations in Luke" were still under gentile rule, with no country of their own until 1947. Do you still believe the Bible or have you given up on both Bible and JWs? if you don't mind my asking? Thanks for your reply. JC

35

A@G appears in new WT Comments video

by Awakened at Gilead in

hi everyone..... v just posted about this, but since i am interviewed in the video i wanted to start my own thread to get the word out... let me know what you think... my real name and pic are in the video, along with some of my gilead experiences..... lance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkkm_aa_j4.

the link to this vid is:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkkm_aa_j4 in case you want to comment there..... .

JCanon

HI LANCE.

A big HUG and thank you for sharing your experience at WTS Hqrs!

I particularly appreciated finding out about the "Writing Committee." Whenever I directed letters to the WTS I did one to the GB and one to the "Writing Committee" because they, indeed, were the ones doing the critical research and providing the actual information and had to be the most knowledgeable.

I was wondering what your WTS status is now. After going to Gilead and everything, etc. Are you and your wife still active or did the WTS kick you out?

ALSO, you are brilliant to realize the "7 times" and the "end of the gentile times" are not the same event Biblically. Per my interpretation the "end of the gentile times" ends in 1947 when the Jews actually regain their country and the promised land. But that is connected to the 1290 days. The 1335 days is connected to the second coming and thus the 1335 days and the 7 times can be fulfilled at the same time, etc.

As far as 1919 goes, because the WTS are now in spiritual darkness nor have the correct timeline that's all they can do to try and go on record with all these prophecies. It's sad really.

Thanks again for sharing. But since you know the Bible, I was wondering if you'd comment on my recent challenge to other ex-witnesses about the child being born in Revelation? The WTS says this is the KINGDOM, but I say no. This is a reference to the messiah! If you care to comment, since I know you know the Bible, I'd appreciate it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acjN5-M-B8M

Thanks, and best regards,

JohnC

20

Part 2: A@G interviewed in WT Comments Video

by Awakened at Gilead in

in case you missed this on other threads, check out part 2..... lance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i91g1v_mrr4.

.

JCanon

Thanks! Amazing! It is true that the "7 times" DO NOT line up with the "end of the gentile times"!!!

The "7 times" deals with the second coming.

The "end of the gentile times" ends at 1290 days. The messiah arrives at 1335 days. So the end of the gentile times actually happens 45 years before the end if the "7 times"!!!

Absolutely correct.

The WTS three things to 1914 when only one out of three applies.

1) The beginning of the "last generation" which begins with a world war (i.e. nation vs nation, etc.), thus 1914-1994.

2) The end of the gentile times.

3) The Second coming.

#1 is okay. The last generation does begin with the first sign of a world war and the messiah does appear before a generation expires in 1994.

But #2 is 1947, when the Jews LITERALLY were given their land back and allowed to create a new nation. So the end of the gentile times occurs in 1947.

3) The Second coming, as noted, is 45 years after the end of the gentile times. That is 45 years after 1947 and thus in 1992.

Interesting someone noticed no where in the Bible are the "7 times" linked with the "end of the gentile times"!!

JC

36

Leaving the Organization but not the teachings

by donny in

when i left the witnesses in 1992 after ten years in the orgainzation, i got as far away from the teachings and mindest as i could.

however some, like my former brother-in-law, also left, but are intent on finding ways to reform the society from within since he believes in the society as being of god, but that it has become misguided and is slowly drifting to "christendom" status.

one of the things he cites as evidence is the wtbts become aligned with the united nations.

JCanon

well, it's complex but..

Just as Jehovah set aside the Jews for a special purpose in the larger scheme of things and they failed to an extent, the WTS is the same way. There was a need for a Christian covenant setting through which the 2nd coming messiah would arrive. This is the reference to the "temple in its right condition" after 2300 evenings and mornings.

This is the JW organization. Problem is, they were corrupted early on by "weeds" that could not be removed at that delicate point. So the decision was to leave the weeds in place and separate them at the time of harvest.

Simply put Jehovah would use the organization to preach the good news and bring forth the messiah, just as he continued to use the nation of Israel. But once Christ comes, he'd separate the wheat from the weeds, the sheep from the goats and abandon the organization to the goats and false prophets.

Thus it is not a SIMPLE true vs false religion.

On a personal level, it is okay to be on the BROAD ROAD up to a certain point. But when we get close to the destination, the broad road leads off into destruction and we must choose the narrow path.

So the WTS organization does fulfill many prophesies, but not "faithful and discreet slave." They do "preach the good news worldwide" before the end comes, which was the "end of the gentile times in 1947", but as the Bible also prophesies, the leadership would become apostate, the "man of lawlessness" and be rejected by Christ when he arrives and so the "evil slave" is fulfilled by them.

So perhaps the simplest way to explain it is that up until 1996 you could call them "Jehovah's organization" but not after that. They are now the evil slave organization.

That applies to their teachings. Some are divinely inspired and some are false. We have to determine which is which.

JC

20

A grave contradiction?

by dark angle in

notion: .

all mankind has sinned because our greatx4 grand father adam sinned.

sin is passed through generation.

JCanon

I'm too wordy!

Bottom line is, we have a second chance to live, thanks to Jehovah's plan to save us.

Are we going to kiss a gift horse in the mouth? Question his methods?

What if he bent the law to save us? Would we care? No!

We don't care if the rules are bent if it saves someone we love. We just don't.

So it boils down to: Do you want to stand here and argue. Or do you want to live longer than 80 years?

JC

20

A grave contradiction?

by dark angle in

notion: .

all mankind has sinned because our greatx4 grand father adam sinned.

sin is passed through generation.

JCanon

"Dark angel".... hmmmm

I don't think you really understand the BIG PICTURE.

Once Adam sinned without having had children then he and all his children were condemned to death. Period. God could have killed Adam right then and there and none of us would have been born. He could have just created a new couple, killed Satan and started over.

But, he could see US. YOU, specifically. The potentiality of you. The specific children of Adam. They would have been lost. Satan would have gotten away with the mass murder of billions.

So the choice was to let by-gones be by-gones and start over, too bad for Adam's children, OR to bend the rules. There are two caveats:

1) The sentence of DEATH for sin was not specifically defined. That is, was it death forever, or for just three days. The sentence is carried out after death. But no one said God couldn't raise up back to life anyone who had died. That caveat #1.

2) Caveat #2 is that in order to include Adam's children on this temporarly death sentence amnesty, you had to be able to have some sort of a ransom sacrifice. So God made up a rule that if someone voluntarily gave up their perfect human life, dying without children, then God would accept that sacrifice of all those potential perfect lives in exchange for Adam's children.

What many don't understand, is if the RULE to have the sins of the father come upon the sons was not in place, then the sinless father could not save them. Because of that rule, since one man sinned and brought death to all his children, one perfect man without children could undo this.

But really, SIN and the LAW and mankind, the physical universe was created to get rid of Satan. You see, up in heaven it's just TALK, basically. You can't kill anybody. You don't need to steal anything. So it's just talk. But talk is annoying. So basically, Jehovah created a situation for Satan to put his mouth was. He knew Satan was an elitist so he created mankind and made him in God's image and created a scenario that if taken advantage of, could allow Satan the thrill of a lifetime, a thrill worth dying for, which was killing billions of people! Which he did. Only God turned the tables on him. Those who would die could be brought back to life if God chose. So in this way, God gets rid of Satan and the rebel angels. Basically all the good angels decided to die for God's cause for a short time and be brought back. Satan would have to comply with the same general policy only he won't be brought back.

So you see, DEATH doesn't really amount to much at all, unless its PERMANENT. DEATH satisfies the letter of the law but its flexible as far as eternal life is concerned because God can bring back whom he wants AFTER death.

So it's all kind of a process, painful, maybe confusing for some, but in the end, the only people who end up dying are those who would have rebelled with Satan anyway and God would have executed them. All the good people will have the chance to life forever.

So this whole process of pain and sickness and death is to get our "ticket" to life later on. We need to be born and then die in order to be part of the later life planned for us.

I believe the ratios will be similar for humanity as for the angels in heaven. Two-thirds will serve and love God and a third will opt out. Collateral damage. But Satan and his demons will be GONE! Forever. Everyone alive will have died, being tested to the death for their integrity, so there will be no more rebellion.

The earth will still be a crown of God's creation with maybe 4 billion people left on the planet and forever to get to know each other. If everybody was made room mates with every othe human for one year, every other year, just so everybody would one day say they know everybody else, it would take 8 billion years. Just a thought.

MAN was created to get rid of Satan, because with MAN and the physical universe, you could have LAWS and SIN, and thus DEATH.

SATAN gladly died for the chance to kill mankind. But if he knew he'd only be killing permanently the wicked and all the good would be saved, would he have bothered? Doubtful.

But God's like that. He plays games. He turns the tables. He likes to wager and gamble. So he said man would die but he didn't say how long they would have to die.

It's INGENIUS! Just make a rule that EVERYBODY MUST DIE and kill everybody! Even your own only-begotten son. Just like during the Flood. Then after that, you bring back who you want and the incident is forgotten. Satan can't say anything. And Christ and the faithful angels gladly would die for the cause of getting rid of Satan, so it all worked out. Satan has to live with being outsmarted and tricked. ALL he has left is to kill as many as possible. He is focussed. That's his only legacy. He loves killing mankind so he may as well go for it. In the meantime, it works out for God because Satan exposes the evil in the hearts of mankind who deserve to die if they rebel, so Satan is now part of the clean-up crew. Jehovah is using him.

JC

32

The Mayan Calander Ends 2012 December

by frankiespeakin in

have any on this board read into this subject?

JCanon

There me be something to this.

Each time the messiah arrives it is around the time of the winter solstice. That is at the time of Mary's annunciation that she'd become pregnant, when holy spirit overshadowed her, then the Christ in heaven was transferred to human form. Likewise, in 1992 the transmigration into the prodigal son was also around the same time, December 25, the so-called "birth of the sun." So Christ is linked to the sun.

December 21, 2012 is the precise date for the winter solstice.

But it is also exactly 20 years after the second coming!

The number 20 doesn't seem especially significant, but the solstice timing does. 20 is more significant though as a rounded number than some others I would suppose. 10 is a component of 490 and 70, so perhaps this marks off some special pattern of numbers we are not appreciating yet.

???

JC