Posts by Diogenesister

24

“The Right to Shun: Ghent’s Misguided Jehovah’s Witness Decision“ Matthew P. Cavedon

by AndersonsInfo in

https://canopyforum.org/2021/04/19/the-right-to-shun-ghents-misguided-jehovahs-witness-decision/.

in march, the criminal court of ghent, belgium fined the congregation of jehovah’s witnesses (jw) for “inciting discrimination and hatred or violence against former members.” the case centered on the jw practice of “disfellowshipping.” while the court’s sensitivity to the individual impact of shunning is laudable, its decision regrettably assaults the freedoms of religion and association.. first, some background on jw beliefs and disfellowshipping.

jw was founded in the united states over a century ago and is headquartered in new york state.

Diogenesister

Which means those feeling coerced to shun can pretty easily have regular contacts with their disfellowshipped friends and relatives - and still avoid being caught and punished. If they don't use - don't even try to use - this opportunity, are they really coerced?

Remember Jehovah is always watching. You can't sneak a telephone conversation Jehovah doesn't see

I think sometimes if we've been out a while we forget what it's like to actually believe in (Watchtower's)Jehovah and believe it's not just wrong but actually wicked to communicate with DF ones that holy spirit has deemed unrepentant and therefore wicked too.

7

What does the fact that WT baptism numbers are still high in the pandemic tell us?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i thought jiles grey response to this question was interesting:.

"i think that it demonstrates just how ineffective the jehovah’s witnesses’ door to door evangelising is.. in 2019 there were 303,866 people baptised.

this was during a year when the preaching work was in full swing.. in 2020 there were 241,994 people baptised.

Diogenesister

Road to nowhere 🤣true!

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bump in baptisms when the halls reopen (partly for 'glory' reasons as @JwTom mentioned) but also because the pandemic is likely to panic POMi's into going back to the hall and getting baptised. They've also been pushing avoiding those who have 'left Jehovah' a lot lately, too, and that always pressurises unbaptised family.

34

Lawsuit: I said GB member Barr that my Bethelite stepfather abused me; he did nothing

by Corney in

here's an excerpt from the recent lawsuit deborah hines v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york et al (paragraphs 158-180), one of 29 known cases brought against the org pursuant to the ny child victims act.

what should be kept in mind is that gerrit lösch apparently worked in europe (the austrian branch and eastern europe) at the time when the abuse was allegedly reported to him (not a gb member then).. plaintiff was raised a member of the jehovah’s witnesses.

she primarily attended meetings at various congregations in arizona.

Diogenesister

Si or then saying they should think of themselves as "privileged". c'mon, that's just nuts.

I don't know about the rest of it, but I can imagine a Bethel Elder telling a young girl she is "privileged" to have all the experiences she has had, working at Bethel.

After all, it's a "privilege" for JWs to even give their darn money to the Borg. Everything's a bloody privilege with that lot!

Edit

The mistake being made is imagining that someone being in the US or not verifies the claim. It doesn't. If they were not in the US then it would discredit them but their being there doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that they were there.

Agreed. I just meant if he wasn't there it immediately rules her testimony as false, no?

24

“The Right to Shun: Ghent’s Misguided Jehovah’s Witness Decision“ Matthew P. Cavedon

by AndersonsInfo in

https://canopyforum.org/2021/04/19/the-right-to-shun-ghents-misguided-jehovahs-witness-decision/.

in march, the criminal court of ghent, belgium fined the congregation of jehovah’s witnesses (jw) for “inciting discrimination and hatred or violence against former members.” the case centered on the jw practice of “disfellowshipping.” while the court’s sensitivity to the individual impact of shunning is laudable, its decision regrettably assaults the freedoms of religion and association.. first, some background on jw beliefs and disfellowshipping.

jw was founded in the united states over a century ago and is headquartered in new york state.

Diogenesister

Simon....Jehovah's witnesses do not have a choice.

You won't convince me otherwise.

24

“The Right to Shun: Ghent’s Misguided Jehovah’s Witness Decision“ Matthew P. Cavedon

by AndersonsInfo in

https://canopyforum.org/2021/04/19/the-right-to-shun-ghents-misguided-jehovahs-witness-decision/.

in march, the criminal court of ghent, belgium fined the congregation of jehovah’s witnesses (jw) for “inciting discrimination and hatred or violence against former members.” the case centered on the jw practice of “disfellowshipping.” while the court’s sensitivity to the individual impact of shunning is laudable, its decision regrettably assaults the freedoms of religion and association.. first, some background on jw beliefs and disfellowshipping.

jw was founded in the united states over a century ago and is headquartered in new york state.

Diogenesister

An excerpt from the piece:

None of this comes without a cost, one with which Mr. Introvigne is personally familiar: “I am a Roman Catholic, and one who is divorced and remarried. . . Some of [my friends] are conservative Catholics and, no matter what the Popes might have said [about merciful inclusion], have decided to cease any association with me.” Despite this, he believes liberty in structuring personal relationships and communal commitments to be important. “The end of these friendships was certainly painful. Yet, I respected their free decision not to associate with me any longer, and certainly did not ask a court of law to compel them to continue our friendship, nor did I sue the conservative theologians who support this behavior asking for damages or fines. This was not generosity. It was simply common sense . . .” Common sense, that is, borne of a healthy appreciation for freedom.

More clap trap from that notorious cult apologist Maximo Introvigne.

Note he states that *despite* the pope's statements on merciful inclusion - (I'm guessing forgiveness....after all we are supposed to be Christians right ...RIGHT??) - his friends *decided* to cease associating with him. Of their own free will.

This lawyer seems not to be aware that there's a great deal of difference between a religious body *mandating* the shunning of family, and the free choice of friends not to associate with one any longer.

53

Those members who passed away

by Gorb in

jw
friends

who of those passed away jwd/jwn members, do we think of??.

oompah and the lady from australia, are there more??.

g..

Diogenesister

often think about OOMPAH, he was a biker as am I. His situation could so easily have been mine.

Poor OOMPAH. Devastating. The cruelty always damages the best hearts. That all happened as I started ......I wanted to say cruising 🤣What's the word? Lurking.

34

Lawsuit: I said GB member Barr that my Bethelite stepfather abused me; he did nothing

by Corney in

here's an excerpt from the recent lawsuit deborah hines v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york et al (paragraphs 158-180), one of 29 known cases brought against the org pursuant to the ny child victims act.

what should be kept in mind is that gerrit lösch apparently worked in europe (the austrian branch and eastern europe) at the time when the abuse was allegedly reported to him (not a gb member then).. plaintiff was raised a member of the jehovah’s witnesses.

she primarily attended meetings at various congregations in arizona.

Diogenesister

AFAIK, Lösch spent the entire part of his life preceding 1990/91 in Europe, where he was born, which doesn't necessarily mean he didn't visit the US Bethel at that time but certainly raises questions.

It certainly does. If she's absolutely sure it was Lösch, and she doesn't mean she reported it to him historically, there must be some way to prove he'd travelled to the USA or not. Although I have to say if he was purely a Bethel visitor, as such, he's a strange choice to report it to. You'd think she'd choose a permanent member of staff.

34

Lawsuit: I said GB member Barr that my Bethelite stepfather abused me; he did nothing

by Corney in

here's an excerpt from the recent lawsuit deborah hines v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york et al (paragraphs 158-180), one of 29 known cases brought against the org pursuant to the ny child victims act.

what should be kept in mind is that gerrit lösch apparently worked in europe (the austrian branch and eastern europe) at the time when the abuse was allegedly reported to him (not a gb member then).. plaintiff was raised a member of the jehovah’s witnesses.

she primarily attended meetings at various congregations in arizona.

Diogenesister

Dear god....I'm speechless. How horrible.

I'm sure Gerrit probably commuted from both Bethel's, perhaps connected with his work with one of the East European branch "rebels" when the iron curtain came up...it's about the same time. He was back and forth back then.

In other words I'd put money on them pretending he was full time in Austria to cast doubt on her testimony.

23

Unfaithful spouse

by Worstfear in

my wife and i have been together for 12 years.

married for 6. she was born into the truth, i studied for 2 years before we got married.

we would attend meetings on a weekly basis, go to conventions, and memorial every year.

Diogenesister

You didn't mention if you were active witnesses. I'm guessing not? Otherwise they would presumably know. Also, if you're not, telling the elders is kinda harassment. At least if they came around and bothered her it is.

It seems all rather sudden. If it really played out as you say, I'm sorry. But I only have your side. For all we know you may be abusive, controlling etc etc Please don't get angry for saying it.... it's just my father tells huge sob stories about my mother leaving him to raise two kids...he just forgets to mention the bit about breaking her nose, throwing her out every five minutes and her sleeping in the car etc etc

Taking things at face value I think Stephen LaLiberté said it best. Look back with fondness, try not to be bitter because it will destroy you and try to remain friends. " Jehovah's arrangement" may well be the reason it ended. Husband's being the head is an old fashioned and frankly damaging attitude. It's misogynistic to say the least. Perhaps if the two of you saw it as a partnership - and kept Jehovah out of your marriage bed - you may have still been together. It's a fact JW have the same rate of divorce as secular people, actually in some cases a higher divorce rate.

I wish you the very best. Take care of yourself, maybe get to know yourself without cult influence, ensure you split things fairly and maybe find something you've always wanted to do/experience but couldn't due to commitments. You only live once and if you really love her you'd want her to be happy and she you. Be the bigger person and believe me you will be a winner in the end

Meanwhile, research JWfacts.com.

53

Those members who passed away

by Gorb in

jw
friends

who of those passed away jwd/jwn members, do we think of??.

oompah and the lady from australia, are there more??.

g..

Diogenesister

Happy Dad Onacruise was a mod, too, no? Sounds like he was much loved by all, I read a tear jerker post by his nephew. Sadly passed on like Min.

I miss Blondies great reviews and "steadying" influence on here. A great lass.