Posts by Diogenesister

71

Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)

by Simon in

jw
friends

continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.

so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.

if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.

Diogenesister

Insofar as I'm concerned it is morally acceptable for one person to shun another if the individual knows precisely the conduct at issue and has made a personal choice to shun based on that conduct. In that case individual accountability for shunning is put under an even more intense lens of scrutiny. They can't, for instance, get away with saying "Well So-n-So did something horrible otherwise they'd not be disfellowshipped." Instead the individual has to be comfortable saying, for example, "I'm shunning So-n-So because So-n-So was asking questions that my religion's leaders could not answer for."

Again Marvin, you have a real point. As has been said before on this forum we choose to shun people all the time. I shunned the neighbour who keeps stealing, shun the traffic warden who gives me parking tickets outside my own home.

We do choose to shun people for various lengths of time depending on what they have done (& typically whether an apology is forthcoming) and usually for a limited time span.

To force them to confront the fact that they are shunning you essentially for a thought crime as no matter what we were df for we are not coming back (so the shunning will be possibly for all time ), can only be good.

14

Dubbers now sitting in flea markets to count time. Dont even try to pawn mags.

by dogon in

every flea market i go to a group of idiots sits under a tent top with a few mags on display with a cup of coffee playing on a phone with as much interest in pushing the cult as a teenage girl at the check out line has in bagging your groceries.

when i was in the cult we had to work for our time.

now its like sitting at the coffee shop bsing with the other cult idiots counting time for your pioneer status.

Diogenesister

As a true believer counting time like that made me believe I had blood on my hands.They cannot possibly believe the rubbish they peddle.

71

Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)

by Simon in

jw
friends

continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.

so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.

if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.

Diogenesister

Nicolou & everyone, I've just watched that horrible video of the infamous "shunning couple" and that womens'body laguage says it all - constantly wringing her hands she can't wait to get off the stage - she knows it's BS.

In their 50's, stuck at beth-hell she knows damn well that "spiritual direction" to shun doesn't come from Jesus or Jah, it comes from the org.

No doubt her son is another captive prisoner of the org.

Amnesty should start lobbying the govt for his freedom.

71

Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)

by Simon in

jw
friends

continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.

so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.

if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.

Diogenesister

Some people seem to get very agitated when I talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the WTS, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.

They may be an element of not wanting to face the fact that their loved one is making any kind of personal choice to shun them. Who can blame them. It hurts like hell.

But we have all seen posters who say that they have never personally shunned. It can be done.

I remember one poster likening it to (in the case of a parent shunning a child)watching their child drown without taking the risk of diving in and trying to save them. In other words the parent is protecting their own life at the expense of the childs'. Utterly unnatural.

Of course the shunning parent would counter that they don't personally care about living forever (and that they would willingly swap with their child)but rarther it is their love and loyalty to Jah that is the reason they shun.

Jah has plenty of children, he will be vindicated (or not)with or without you. On the other hand, maybe JW's should play fair - maybe Jahs laws should be broken, maybe he should loose, maybe he's not the better 'man'!

Why do they shun people? Clearly, for a high-control group like the WTS it's so that they can protect their membership

Absolutely, to protect them from 'ttatt' erosion as you say but also on a basic level to have an 'in' group you have to make an 'out' group, which is essentially what being a witness is all about - isolation from 'the other/the rest' its just notching it up another level.

Essentially though, I think people hand the Society as much power as they wish. Everyone knows the pioneer/elder who sees their d/f son all the time and who noone would dream of saying a word to.

Accepted that some congs may be worse than others but....

I know people who would not dream of shunning their family member, cutting only, as has been said 'spiritual ties'.

At the end of the day noone has been stopped from going out in service for not shunning a relative, the only command a JW should be worried about as I see it.

As the Manic Street Preachers song goes

"If you tolerate this, then your children will be next"

4

Even dogs suffer from cognitive dissonance.

by Driving Force in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiyhxmnbik

Diogenesister

bump it up so noone misses it!

4

Even dogs suffer from cognitive dissonance.

by Driving Force in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiyhxmnbik

Diogenesister

So alike, its no wonder we are so close!

Dogs also look at the left side of the face when they are gauging our emotional responses - like we do. Have they learned it from us, surely they have!

18

The public prosecuter is interested in getting information on JWs.

by Driving Force in

background information.

i myself am in full fade mode with an overly active jw wife, who refuses to discuss any point whatsoever.

a friend who is not a jw nor has ever been a jw; he studied for a few months, then realized what an evil cult it is and stopped.

Diogenesister

Heaven Actigall & all Hi I signed it, I just put in the extra information section as to why I signed was that the WTBTS world headquarters are in the USA so any policy changes regarding paedophiles have to be sanctioned by the GB (whatever autonomy legal rules give branch in various countries it counts for nothing etc etc)

So basically anyone from any country the WT has congs may be affected by that which happens in US of A.

Cheers Sis D

13

I still get emotional about the "truth" .....even though I know it's all lies...what is wrong with me????

by Witness 007 in

my mum is doing kemo and i have gone to many meetings at my old hall and brothers have said how they remember my old talks how good they were (ass kiss) and i still feel emotional even though i know 100% it is lies, funny human mind did i do it all for personal pats on the back and self esteem....yes i did i was a loser who needed some luv.

Diogenesister

Yup, I get that too. The love bombing is what does it for most people. I mean who would join, no matter how much sense it made, if all the people where mean?

The sense of community has always been the toughest thing to give up.

PS nothing wrong with needing some love.

18

Nice moment today

by Theburstbubble in

so it's been a few months since i last went to a meeting but i've still had lots of guilty feelings about leaving, such as am i doing the right thing, thinking about friends and family, where do i go from here etc etc.

but i think once you stop believing you can't go back.. anyway, today i had a very nice experience.

my daughter had been to nursery today and when she got home i asked her what she had done and she excitedly told me they had been doing pumpkins.

Diogenesister

Burstbubble made me smile, thank hou

Dunedin Ahhh "haunted hayrides"sounds amazing - wish we had that in the uk

We have bonfire night though - I love the smells at this time of year

5

CIA Director's Email Hacked

by Simon in

someone is claiming that they hacked the cia directors email and stole personal + restricted information.

but we're not talking about hillary :).

i don't know if it's real or not yet - it seems like it may be.

Diogenesister

I use AOL ! (well I still have the email account) In the UK is been taken over by Talk Talk - service has been terrible ever since!