Posts by Diogenesister

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Diogenesister

Sir82 Wait a minute....

God's holy book says my heart is "treacherous".

How do I know if the condition of my heart is "right"? Suppose I see evidence that convinces me that God really does exist. How do I know that I'm not just being deceived by my "treacherous" heart?

Can't have it both ways.

That was basically Rene Descarte's argument, except he proposed it may be an evil fairy creating an 'illusion' or dream about what is or isn't real or true, but it amounts to the same question really and it's a damned good one. All you can really know is that you yourself exist...else you would not be posing any question. It's ' The cogito' I think therefore I am. He basically tried to strip it all away and build It up from that one proposition.

I'm sure u guys know all this but I thought I'd point it out for Jew be.😄

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

Diogenesister

Wizzstick I, unlike believer, have read your document. It simply and comprehensively using only the bible and Watchtower explains the great crowd in Revelation ( which is the one we are talking about, the relevant " Great crowd) is in the naos, or heaven .

Please can you post it on here as I have tried and cannot.

37

Despite their false predictions aren't the JWs right? Won't the world eventually end & Paradise come?

by deegee in

aren't there christian denominations who do not make false end of the world predictions but who nevertheless believe that the world will eventually end and paradise (whether in heaven or on earth) will come?.

it seems the watchtower was just jumping the gun when they made false end of the world predictions but they are nevertheless the right: the world will eventually end and paradise will come..

Diogenesister

IThe world will end as it gets enveloped by our Sun when it runs out of hydrogen at its core and becomes a red giant, but unless you think 2,200 to 3,200 degrees Celsius (4,000 to 5,800 degrees Fahrenheit), a little over half as hot as the sun is now,as the world ends as being your idea of paradise you can forget the paradise bit.

17

The Story of My Sister - Lurkers: Is this logical?

by Funchback in

my sister got baptized at 17 or 18 years old in 1983. she was ripe for the jw picking as she was shy, quiet, naive and with low self-esteem even though she was tall and beautiful and she attended one of the best high schools in philadelphia.. she wasn't outgoing and she only went out on a couple of dates prior to her baptism.

she worked at a day care center.

she loved children and animals.

Diogenesister

The irony is if you both had not told the elders of her church wedding, just quietly attended not making it known within the cong, they never would have DA your Sis. Again, it's not the act itself but if it is known and 'stumbles'. Not the marriage itself but what building the vows are exchanged in even though jws see all buildings as plain buildings supposedly denying that one is holier than another or more profane than another.

22

1st christmas ever

by notalone in

jw
friends

so, i am around 50,4th gen born in- christmas.

strange thing this christmas thing.

i've been watching people this year, really watching them.

Diogenesister

en the Jews were told in Deuteronomy that at their festival they were to be "nothing but joyful".

Where did that go? Modern day JWs are still locked in to the Puritan standards of their modern day founders.

How very true! Utterly puritan in spirit. Even the early Christians celebrated Pentecost, a Jewish celebration. So it's obvious festivities, like circumcision , was neither here nor there to early Christians.

If the dubs are so worried about pagan festival's, why not celebrate Jewish ones therefore.

Congratulations on your first Christmas Notalone - I say to my kids, as an Atheist, I do it for the tribe!

As to why newbies get sucked in to JW distain for Xmas, I think many come from a sad place where it symbolizes loneliness, separation from family ( for immigrants) or from children of divorce it represents conflict. For the poor, of course, it represents the materialistic life they will never attain. Its a different type of person dubs have appealed to this last 20 years I think.

24

devil question

by Carol1111 in

i had a discussion with 4 jws today and they told me that jesus could not be tempted, ( they say that he would not be perfect if he could) but also they told me that satan tempted jesus in the wilderness.. can anyone clarify their beliefs please.

i like to give them a reasoned argument when i talk to them, but have never noticed this conflict of ideas before..

Diogenesister

Cold steel (Jesus) He was informed that the choice was his, but he also was told the consequences would be catastrophic for the rest of us, so he persevered.

Which is effectively no choice.

It sounds a lot like Jehovahs idea of "free will" - do as I say or you die.

24

devil question

by Carol1111 in

i had a discussion with 4 jws today and they told me that jesus could not be tempted, ( they say that he would not be perfect if he could) but also they told me that satan tempted jesus in the wilderness.. can anyone clarify their beliefs please.

i like to give them a reasoned argument when i talk to them, but have never noticed this conflict of ideas before..

Diogenesister

If Jesus could not be tempted then what was the point of tempting him? The whole exercise was meaningless, therefore likely didn't happen.

Honestly every now and then the witnesses come up with something a little bit logical but don't take it all the way.

If Jesus didn't actually die ( the way Adam purportedly has) how Is it a ran some sacrifice...how does it 'balance the scales'. Effectively Jesus felt some pain he didn't have to.

12

Did anyone catch the irony in the December JW Broadcast?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

there was an interview with a 107 year old lady who had been a jw since the age of 10 or so.

remembers seeing the "photodrama of creation" when it was still a thing, etc.. so she's explaining about herself & her husband witnessing thru the years, 1930's thru now.. she says at one point, her husband called on a guy who said something like "the last time i got a call from a jw, it was 50 years ago in xyz village by a guy on a bike who said armageddon was coming soon.".

the lady was just so tickled, because the guy on the bike was her husband, who happened to run into the same guy (who remembered him) 50 years later.. and i'm thinking "wait a minute....her husband said 'armageddon was coming soon' 50 years earlier...obviously he was completely wrong.

Diogenesister

She also mentioned that she keeps up with " current truth". They seem to be really pushing this whole " new light" is the sign of the true religion thing.

I can't help But think this is prepping the r & f for a big change in doctrine.

5

New Magazine Feature, "Questions from readers." ...........if only!

by Lostandfound in

never will the gb allow honest questions or doubts be raised, loyalty, loyalty,loyalty is their watchword, but if it did print qenuine readers questions, what would they be?.

Diogenesister

"So if Gods directs the society, was he asleep all those times they taught things that have proven to be wrong?"

No he was taking a leak with Baal!!

56

"You Wouldn't Believe How Many Have Crawled Back To The Meetings"

by minimus in

jw
friends

that's a comment i heard from an elder i haven't seen in over a decade, yesterday.

i mentioned it all on my other thread.

i responded that i knew of no one that was crawling back to the meetings and gave him an incredulous hearty chuckle.

Diogenesister

A Believer Don't believe everything you see on the internet
Sir82 That's true.I once saw someone on the internet claim that "there is more evidence that Christ was enthroned as king of God's Kingdom in 1914 than there is for gravity and electricity".

Sir82 Don't forget wind!