Goldensky, there are a lot of nordic type individuals in southern Europe and in most instances (recent intermarriages being an exception) their origins go back to the days of the collapse of the Western Roman empire and the migration there of Germanic tribes eg the Vandals to Spain and Portugal, the Goths and Lombards to Italy followed later by the Normans whereas in places like northern and eastern France the nordic element became predominant. Later during the crusades nordics settled as far away as Greece, Cyprus and even the Middle East (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine).
Thunderinus
JoinedPosts by Thunderinus
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Does Hispanic mean Mestizo?
by donny inwith all the hoopla going on in arizona, i have been hearing a lot of comments about the state of arizona being racists against "hispanics".
i always thoght hispanic meant someone whose promary language was spanish or in some cases portugese.
has the word hispanic come to mean only mestizo's (people of mixed european and amerindian ancestry)?.
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NEW GENERATION DEFINED -- April 15, 2010 Watchtower
by Ultimate Reality infrom jw.org, here is the new definition of the generation from the april 15, 2010 watchtower.. .
article: holy spirits role in the outworking of jehovahs purpose.
13 third, holy spirit is at work in bringing bible.
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Thunderinus
All this is manipulation to keep the sense of urgency alive because that is what keeps the WTS going, once the members begin to feel there is no longer anything that will happen within their lifetime they will lose all motive to work for their masters (as well as all fear of an imminent end that so greatly helps to keep them in line) and perhaps leave.
That's why they keep coming up with these strange sophistries, it's a policy they applied from their very beginning in 1878 until now. The end is always "coming any time soon" so keep serving and obeying jehovah (ie the watchtower society which pretends to serve the interests of God but in fact serves the interests of men) in case the soon to be end finds you on the wrong side.
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The increasing number of the anointed. Comments, anyone?
by dgp ini'm very much enjoying "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses", by heather and gary botting.
now, this excerpt comes very much to the point of this thread, i believe:.
page 145: "still, in 1975 the society clearly feared a continuation of the upward trend in memorial partakers, and in an article entitled "annointing to a heavenly hope - how is it manifest?
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Thunderinus
This anointed class is just a non existent phantom the JWs have always been run by a select few at the HQs, a couple of people until the 1970's then 10 or 20 individuals after the GB took power in the 1970's. These are the real power while the rest are just space fillers. In addition the separation of the body of christians, though of course the JWs are not a christian church by any stretch of the imagination but rather an aberrant cult, into two categories is a gross distortion of the biblical teaching.
In all my time as a JW I could never understand what set the so called anointed apart since they didn't seem to be doing anything that the other JWs didn't do to mark them out as a different class. As for the GB members and the past presidents of the WTS it is well known that they are/were anything but exemplary christians and it's a mystery how such spiritual miscreants could receive the so called heavenly calling.
It's no wonder why the stats do not add up.
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Beginning on JWN
by Thunderinus ini left the jws three years ago after having done extensive research through the internet where fortunately one can find an enormous amount of information regarding every aspect of the jws it's simply amazing how many websites there are exposing their real nature.
though in the end i don't blame so much the rank and file members who are themselves naive and ignorant victims, rather i blame those governing this organisation who are constantly and ruthlessly deceiving and holding captive in a spiritual sense their hapless followers.. i had several issues with them:.
the blood ban goes too much against common sense why would it be wrong to accept blood from someone that willing gives it and without any coercion or harm to himself precisely out of good kindness with the intention to save lives as indeed millions of lives were saved in this way.
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Thunderinus
WT=watchtrouble I was wondering at first but then realised it was a joke. I didn't read the whole of the COC book but only parts of it on the internet some while ago. It surely shows that the GB's divine direction is a joke but it is nice that at least one member of the GB had a conscience crisis about the unscrupulous methods used at HQ.
Grace I think having the internet helps a lot in searching out the truth about the JWs but your experience shows how rotten this religion is, expelling someone for disagreeing on what is a minor issue (but at least it got you out of the antichrist cult) and even one that no one has to accept as valid since it refers to alleged events in heaven that can't be verified in any way unlike events on earth. What the JWs were expecting in 1914 was the manifest coming of Jesus, the invisible one had occurred supposedly in 1878, to end all human government on earth yet it continues just the same to this day.
The Oracle, there are many JWs that know this can not be the truth by any stretch of the imagination but choose to remain there because to them the JWs is like a club to socialise in and have a sense of identity and they also say: all religions have serious faults so I might as well stay here.
Iceguy, I measured the pyramids and when the damned measurements didn't suit me I changed them (totally arbitrarily) to bring them in agreement with my purpose.
Flipper and cantleave thanks for the welcome, if Flipper flips away the obstacles then cantleave will be able to change his username to canleave.
Homer, someone will be sitting in the temple of God like a god and seeking to act like one.
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What do most ex-JWs "believe" after leaving?
by EverAStudent inhas anyone done a survey to determine what faith system, religion, or set of religious beliefs ex-jws tend to settle into after leaving the organization?
if not, would you care to post what you presently consider to be your own personal religion (e.g.
protestant, catholic, baptist, jw but not in the organization, agnostic, atheist, ...) and especially what you presently believe about jesus (was he a real historical human, is he god, is he an angel, ...).. thank you!.
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Thunderinus
After the typical abusive experience with the watchtower I am surprised that any ex JWs at all believe in God or Christ, it is more than enough to put anyone off religion for life that awful and oppressive JW god and his actions but fortunately he is just a satanic god and not the real one.
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How do you release the grudge?
by brainwashed-from-birth ini have got a huge grudge against jehovah and his "organization".
i feel like it has ruined my life and any chance of a relationship with god..(if there is one.
) my immediate family has disowned me along with everyone i was comfortable with my whole life.
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Thunderinus
Hi Brainwashed From Birth, I believe your problems which are common to most ex JWs can quite easily be resolved by you having plenty of contact with other ex JWs or ex JW groups you can find through forums like this. Real life communication is the best but internet communication through email, chat or Skype is also very helpful. There will be many people who will be glad to help you if you get in touch with them, it's a shame you had to spend 10 years with jw hang ups when these could have been cleared away long ago. But you are now on the right tracks by opening up and seeking to contact other people.
My research showed that the JWs are not at all the true religion which would appear at the end of times, that is still to happen in the future, we don't know when and in what form but it will certainly be absolutely nothing like the cruel JW organisation and will very likely be one with a lot of authority over the world. In other words the world continues much as it ever did without a genuine christian entity in existence the JWs being nothing but opportunistic impostors pretending to be something they are not in order to deceive and profit through deception at the expense of potential victims. And it will continue like this until the times of the nations come to an end whenever that will be.
You need to transcend the JWs they are not genuine and never have been, the end is not near for all we know and if even it were the JWs are useless as a means of salvation from anything as all their ideology is false. They have no position in any divine scheme for the present or the future no matter what they claim to have. The point is do not take them seriously do not take at heart what they believe and they will cease to have any compelling power over your mind including that fear of armageddon that oppresses so many JWs and ex JWs.
Eventually you should be able to have an unencumbered social and work life, that is the objective.
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What do most ex-JWs "believe" after leaving?
by EverAStudent inhas anyone done a survey to determine what faith system, religion, or set of religious beliefs ex-jws tend to settle into after leaving the organization?
if not, would you care to post what you presently consider to be your own personal religion (e.g.
protestant, catholic, baptist, jw but not in the organization, agnostic, atheist, ...) and especially what you presently believe about jesus (was he a real historical human, is he god, is he an angel, ...).. thank you!.
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Thunderinus
I don't think there ever was a survey done with a meaningfully large sample but from what I gather from ex JW boards a large part become atheists and another large part join mainstream christian denominations or at least accept their beliefs but don't closely associate with them. A smaller part join non christian religions such as neo paganism, judaism, buddhism etc
I accept the basic tenets of christianity and that it is the ideal way, without being judgemental against those that do not though I enjoy having debates with them.
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Beginning on JWN
by Thunderinus ini left the jws three years ago after having done extensive research through the internet where fortunately one can find an enormous amount of information regarding every aspect of the jws it's simply amazing how many websites there are exposing their real nature.
though in the end i don't blame so much the rank and file members who are themselves naive and ignorant victims, rather i blame those governing this organisation who are constantly and ruthlessly deceiving and holding captive in a spiritual sense their hapless followers.. i had several issues with them:.
the blood ban goes too much against common sense why would it be wrong to accept blood from someone that willing gives it and without any coercion or harm to himself precisely out of good kindness with the intention to save lives as indeed millions of lives were saved in this way.
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Thunderinus
Thanks StoneWall, Song19, Joshnaz, Hopscotch, Billy the Ex Bethelite and Almighty Homer and Chalam for the warm welcome.
Hopscotch, unfortunately the shunning policy has destroyed numerous families but it is one of those actions that puts the JWs firmly on the side of the cults, obviously no truly Christian leaders would ever think of creating such havoc in tens of thousands of families. It was not originally the case but as time progressed the leaders of this cult introduced ever more deviant and destructive rules and ideas. At least in the case of the dissenters the shunning policy is clearly a mechanism to protect the position of the leaders, they must have at their disposal the means to swiftly and painfully punish in order to sustain control. Their whole ideology is so faulty and dishonest that it will quickly fall apart if criticism is allowed to go unchecked yet they always, always manage to find and distort and misinterpret biblical verses regarding any point of contention in a way that makes their ideas appear valid at least to the naive as most of their followers are. And this also happens with the shunning policy. The apostle Paul himself never expelled from the church those that were criticising him personally.
Bill, obviously the prophecies of the end failed consistently and what surprises me is that they continued to have full credibility in the eyes of so many of their followers. They danced around so much with the 1914 generation to the limit and in 1995 they dumped the idea, since the generation was virtually gone by then, without ever apologising for having messed up so many lives through this false prophecy, no university education, no pension schemes, no careers, a lot of oppressive apprehension because the horribly vindictive end is so near.
Almighty Homer, surely this is a corrupt organisation but let's not forget those who run it believe they have some kind of private ownership over it, someone had to invest money to set it up therefore he and his successors after him are basically the owners with legal rights over it. Of course they say this is God's own organisation to entice people into it but in reality treat it as if it is to all intents and purposes their own private property that they can run as they see fit without any interference from outsiders ie non owners. But you either believe something or you don't, this either is or isn't God's organisation, it can't be both.
Chalam, yes they are obviously the proverbial thieves and impostors since they have no real love in their heart for the flock. They always have plenty of advice to give and suggestions to make but never any practical help to offer. The true Christ is still to come.
Thunderinus
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Beginning on JWN
by Thunderinus ini left the jws three years ago after having done extensive research through the internet where fortunately one can find an enormous amount of information regarding every aspect of the jws it's simply amazing how many websites there are exposing their real nature.
though in the end i don't blame so much the rank and file members who are themselves naive and ignorant victims, rather i blame those governing this organisation who are constantly and ruthlessly deceiving and holding captive in a spiritual sense their hapless followers.. i had several issues with them:.
the blood ban goes too much against common sense why would it be wrong to accept blood from someone that willing gives it and without any coercion or harm to himself precisely out of good kindness with the intention to save lives as indeed millions of lives were saved in this way.
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Thunderinus
I left the JWs three years ago after having done extensive research through the internet where fortunately one can find an enormous amount of information regarding every aspect of the JWs it's simply amazing how many websites there are exposing their real nature. Though in the end I don't blame so much the rank and file members who are themselves naive and ignorant victims, rather I blame those governing this organisation who are constantly and ruthlessly deceiving and holding captive in a spiritual sense their hapless followers.
I had several issues with them:
The blood ban goes too much against common sense why would it be wrong to accept blood from someone that willing gives it and without any coercion or harm to himself precisely out of good kindness with the intention to save lives as indeed millions of lives were saved in this way. Now why God would be opposed to this is something beyond all rational understanding and like so many other JW concepts it creates the wrong impression about God as an irrational tyrant and certainly sends out the wrong message about him. All the more so when one considers that even small children were doomed to an early death due to this insane doctrine.
There is also the extreme arrogance of those leaders who call themselves the faithful and discreet slave but are in fact totally faithless and indiscreet and certainly not humble slaves since they misrepresent the God they pretend to serve creating an oppressive image for him because that suits their mind control purposes. A handful of people who claim that they have a monopoly of divine revelation, that no one has the right to criticise their ideas or claim having received any revelation or inspiration but who themselves can never get anything right since they are for ever changing their doctrines. There is clearly something very satanic about this extraordinary arrogance. Even the anointed JWs (as they perceive them) are out cold, they were stripped of all power to decide anything in this so called true religion.
And there were other serious issues, the extreme shunning policy and the destruction of families and friendships, the separation of the JWs into two classes with one class who make up the vast majority banned from being part of the new covenant and therefore adopted children of God anointed with the Holy Spirit, the gross lack of charitable works by the supposedly true religion and a fabulously rich one at that, the cooperation with what they call the satanic babylonish religions such as the Hare Krishnas and the scientologists in order to save money from taxation or the Malawi - Mexico fiddle again for the sake of the god of mamon (wealth), the lies about the so called end and them being the means to survive that end, the indisputable occultic demonic connections of this religion at least up to the death of Rutherford such as the publishing of a book with the sayings of a demon to a medium woman etc etc I could go on writing a post too long for people to bother reading, the whole list of objections and their detailed analysis.
Of course there is no point in preaching to bring people in a dreary place like this but then they relegate you to a second or third rate member since you don't preach and since you find this behaviour offensive you tear up all cooperation, dump them and leave. It's totally pointless staying on because they will never listen to any suggestions on how to improve but will rather swiftly expel you as an apostate who committed the dreadful offense of trying to run ahead of the FDS, profanely invading his inner sanctum of doctrinal monopoly.
All in all what we have here is the weaving of an elaborate deception sustained by constant, extensive and ruthless lying by a group of abominable men whose conscience was singed beyond all sensitivity and who will not hesitate to even misrepresent God to attain their objectives.
And since they say that us apostates are accursed and due to be cut off from all future life by a wrathful god because we despised his saintly representatives, how wonderfully rhetoric, I finish by sending you greetings from the gloomy land of the accursed and hope to have a lot of interesting exchanges with you in the future and enjoy bashing this hideous and unrepentant beast. One among many that in recent times rose up to claim that they were chosen by God as his sole reps on earth.
Thunderinus