Phil. 2:5-11 is strong support for the Deity of Christ. JWs are ignorant of Greek and mistranslate the passage. The name above all names is YHWH/Jehovah and the passage from Is. applied to YHWH is also applied to Jesus. For Paul and the early church, to confess Jesus as Lord was to confess Him as Almighty God, not watered down 'divine'. Salty has a long way to go to be a biblical Christian (her WT roots are still showing).
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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Want to quit Bible study
by confusedstudent inhi i was just looking for some advice.
i have been studying with the jw's for over a year now, and attended 2 memorials and the district/assembly conventions.
at first, and up until very recently i truly believed what i was learning was the truth.
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godrulz
God is trying to draw you to Himself through a relationship with the true Jesus. Satan is trying to trap and deceive you into a false cult. It will be the biggest mistake of your life if you don't quit studying and tell them to leave you alone except as friends. Unless you look at both sides of the issue (there is a wealth of material to prove that the WT/JW thing is a false religion started by Russell comparatively recently (like Mormons, Scientology, Moonies, Christian Science, Armstongism, etc.). There must be Evangelical churches near you that will be Bible-based and Christ-centered. Seek them out for spiritual answers, not a known cult that ruins lives. Stop studying now and start studying sources that expose the false teachings of this manmade organization. Read a credible Bible (not NWT) prayerfully. Don't be guilted, manipulated, indoctrinated by sincerely wrong people who are controlled like robots.
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"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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godrulz
What contradictions in Christology specifically? The WT has a defective Christology and Jews have a short-sighted view of who Messiah was to be. A sound Christology includes the pre-existence/eternality of Christ, virgin conception, incarnation, life, death, physical resurrection, essential Deity, etc.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
THE Angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Christ. The OT contexts that use this title identify THE Angel/messenger as Jehovah Himself. This is not to be confused with an angel, a created being. The Angel of the Lord is a title of Deity, not creature. Michael is creature. Deity as used theologically/historically refers to being God, not a subordinate god. The WT view and talk of Christ being Deity/divine would be polytheism, belief in more than one true God by nature (Gal. 4:8; I Cor. 8:4-6). Either Jesus is true God or false god. So-called gods are not Deity. Jesus claimed to be equal with the Father, not just a New Age divine being.
The eternal, invisible, triune God did not die (hence the argument that who ran the universe if God died is stupid; the Father and Holy Spirit did not incarnate and die, only the Son. The argument might have merit against modalism, not trinitarianism, though they say Father refers to Deity and Son of God refers to humanity, a wrong view totally). Jesus is the God-Man, one person with two natures. He can die because Deity added humanity. The God-Man died as to humanity, but not as to deity. God cannot die, but the One who died is God. Jude 9 does refer to a historical event, but it still distinguishes Michael/Jesus. Even on earth before resurrection, Jesus had authority/power, though limited and dependent as a human. As well, WT death as cessation is unbiblical. Death is separation, so the spirit left Jesus and remained conscious while the body was in the grave. Jesus died physically, but His spirit-soul continued on (soul sleep is heresy).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Many people who believe the basic biblical truths do unbiblical things. Calvin or Luther did things contrary to Scripture, but that is not an argument against the existence or love/holiness of God (nor proof against the trinity). The WT society has much corruption by fallible men, but that does not mean the beliefs are wrong on all points (hence hypocrites who act contrary to what they believe). More godly believers who live consistent with biblical principles also believe the trinity. Many anti-trinitarians did worse than Calvin. Your argument is ad hominem, not didactic.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
The OT reveals the one true God, YHWH. There are hints of His triune nature in the OT. Jesus fully reveals the Father/God in the NT (Jn. 1; Heb. 1; Col. 1; Phil. 2, etc.). He claimed to be God. The Jews understood this and went to stone Him for blasphemy (Jn. 5; Jn. 10; Jn. 8). If you are using NWT, they systematically twist and mistranslate the Deity verses (and then give specious foot notes to try to justify their perversion; so, use KIT or a credible translation vs sectarian one). Jesus was worshipped as God and given the names, titles, attributes of Deity. Jn. 1:1 alone is sufficient (a god is not grammatically/theologically/contextually possible). Jesus also revealed more about the Deity and personality of the Holy Spirit (Jn. 14-16, etc.). He makes a triune statement in Mt. 28:18-20. There are about 40 Deity of Christ verses (and many more to support triune understanding) and only 6 common JW Arian verses (that simply show that Jesus was also man on earth or positionally lower for a time without being inferior by nature). A basic knowledge of Greek destroys the WT pseudo-scholarship. One cannot be a biblical, historical, orthodox Christian by trusting a counterfeit Christ and false gospel. The Deity of Christ is not negotiable, but essential, salvific truth.
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"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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godrulz
I agree that Messianic Jews are Christians, not Judaistic. Judaism is the foundation for Christianity. Heb. 1:1-3 One must be in the New vs Old Covenant to be saved now.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
I Cor. 15 Positional subordination is not contrary to equality of nature. The same Greek word is used for Jesus being subject to his parents (without being inferior to them). There is a functional vs essential subordination in the Godhead cf. husband and wife are equal in their common humanity, yet husband is the head; president is greater than people, yet equal as to common humanity; other verses show that the Father and Son are co-equal, co-essential, co-eternal, yet the Father is Head, but not superior.
The trinity is not pagan, a WT lie. How does my view differ from the creeds, wontleave? Jude 9 refutes the possibility that Jesus is Michael. Jesus is the uncreated Creator (co-Creator with Father and Holy Spirit). Jn. 1:3; Col. 1:16 (NWT adds 'other' 6x, but it is not in the Greek...check KIT...instead of Christ being excluded as a created being, they do this to make it possible for Him to be created...there is no justification apart from sectarian eisegesis vs exegesis). Michael is a created angel and is not worshipped. Jesus is Creator of angels (Heb. 1) and is worshipped. Jesus has the names, titles, attributes of Deity, but Michael does not. The Jesus/Michael teaching is false doctrine (they just take a verse or two and apply it to Jesus despite context not demanding it; it is desperate support for Christ as creature Arianism since so many other verses contradict that and identify Him with Deity/Father). Jesus is called Alpha/Omega, Beginning/End, First/Last (titles of Deity; Jehovah also called the same). It is arbitrary to not distinguish Jesus and Michel (and is based on wrong assumption that Jesus is an angel). Jude 9 refutes the view since Jesus has all authority/power (Mt. 28), unlike Michael. The WT uses I Thess. 4 but fails to see that the return of Christ is accompanied by the shout of the angel, not that he is the one shouting. Using that logic, Jesus is a trumpet because His return also has the sound of a trumpet external to Him (again, lame WT arguments to support a false teaching). Seventh Day Adventists also call Jesus Michael, but they still hold (now) to a trinitarian view and see Jesus as God, not mere angel (so their error is far less severe and just semantical).
The incarnation of Deity supports the idea that Jesus is fully God and fully man. When I say mere man, I refer to JW and Muslim views that deny that He is the God-Man, one person with two natures (Jn. 1; Phil. 2). Yes, a person can have more than one name/title, but associating Deity/Christ with creature/Michael is simply error (begs the question).
JWs and Jews are wrong to reject the Deity of Christ. JWs are right to see that He is Messiah, but fail to see that the Messiah is Deity, not superman (Is. 9:6; Is. 10:21; Micah 5:2 prophecy of His birth and eternality; Is. 7:14 He is truly Immanuel, GOD with us, not angel with us).
Since it is Easter, the WT also denies core gospel truth by teaching creation-recreation of Michael, not incarnation and physical resurrection (I Cor. 15 essential truth). Jesus was not raised as a spirit creature, another WT error (see Lk. 24:39 refutes WT; cf. Jn. 2:19-21 BODY, not temporary either). The whole invisible return in 1914 is also a joke. His visible return (Acts 1 same way He left; Mt. like lightning; Rev. 1 every eye see Him) is also yet future. If He came in 1914, the world would not still be in this mess (1914 generation is also another WT doctrine that is crumbling...WT clearly not directed by Jehovah in the past nor present; WT supposedly chosen in 1919 based on Finished Mystery which has bizarre interpretations that most JWs would now laugh at).
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80
Struggling
by anniegirl76 ini have been df-ed for almost 9 years.
just out of curiosity, has anyone decided to find another religion or belief after being jw?
i struggle with my feelings, my mom and brother, aunt, cousins are all jw.
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godrulz
I realize there is need for time for healing, etc., but we are all one heart beat away from eternity. The gospel alone is the power of God (Rom. 1:16) and we do not have to have things all sorted out to come to the true Jesus as God, Lord, Savior. He alone can truly heal and redeem us, regardless where we are at (atheist, reprobate sinner, messed up cultist, etc.). I would not risk my eternal destiny on trying to get my act together by myself before I come to Him who calls all to come to Him now, not whenever we get around to it. He could come back today (rapture) or we could die.
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Hi I'm new.
by sweetmochasista inhello all.
i'm not really new i registered about three years ago but never had the guts to post.
i'm still in but want to be out..
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godrulz
Congrats on doing the right thing. I trust you will consider the claims of the true Christ (not an authoritarian cult) on your life. Jesus is Jehovah and He can set you free giving you abundant and eternal life that the Society never could. He will take care of you, but there may be cost and consequences to your previous choices and deception. Leaving false religion and not embracing the true God will not leave you further ahead in light of eternity (but still temporal benefit to be free of cult).