Again, what are foul-smelling H20 posters?
How do we tell who moderators are?
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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40
JWN Is Not The Same Place It Was Years Ago . . .
by PublishingCult intd made the following statement over in another thread, and so i thought it would make a good topic of its own.. jwn is not the same place it was years ago and years from now, it won't be the same place as it is today.. how has jwn changed over the years, old timers?
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An explanation for the increase in anointed
by pirata inremember, if you see this in the watchtower, or hear it in a talk, you heard it here first .
evidently, since we are so close to end of this system of things, god has seen it fitting to fill the final spots held open for the 144,000.. there.
simple, elegant, and doesn't require an overhaul of the 144,000 jw belief..
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godrulz
The lady who invited me (and possibly elder) said that they would count anyone and their dog who partook. They may be lying, misinformed, speaking opinion contrary to GB.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Isaiah 9:6 Jesus/Messiah=el gibbor (Hebrew), Mighty God. Is. 10:21 YHWH is called Mighty God/el gibbor (also in Jeremiah). Judaism is monotheistic. There is only one true God and many false gods. You put the emphasis on Mighty (adjective) instead of noun (God). Jehovah and Jesus are both called Mighty God because they are both Jehovah in nature (but personally distinct as Father/Son). Is. is also clear that Jehovah knows no other gods, has not created other gods before or after Him, etc. You are proposing polytheism, belief in more than one true God. Whether God is called Mighty, Almighty, powerful, all-powerful, holy, loving, faithful, merciful, etc., He is still God. It is a lame argument to say Jesus is Mighty God, but not Almighty God! He is still GOD and there is only one God. Using your logic, YHWH in Is. 10 and Jer. is not Almighty because He is called Might?! Jesus is God, whether Holy God, Loving God, Powerful God, Mighty God, Almighty God (Mt. 28 says He has all authority, something only God has). Jesus forgave sins, something only God can do (Jews went to stone Him). He received worship. You do not give angels the title Mighty God. YHWH does not command all angels to worship Jesus if Jesus is just an angel (Heb. 1:6 LXX in Deut. a verse about worshipping Jehovah applied to Jesus...).
Jn. 1:1 is sufficient when translated properly (no credible Greek scholar, including anti-trinitarian, secular ones support 'a god'...which is polytheism again and grammatically indefensible). The Alpha/Omega, Beginning/End, First/Last series in Is. and Rev. is also proof of His Deity (angels do not have eternality titles). The WT used to say Jesus is Alpha and Omega. In 1978, an Awake and WT a few months apart had articles that were both correct and supported my contention (Jesus is God). To retain WT views, one would have to say one article was false, but which one (one rightly showed that the speaker in Rev. 22:12-16 is Jesus and the other that Jehovah is Alpha and Omega...so Jesus is called all these equivalent titles that belong to God alone). The Arian proof texts you give are consistent with a triune understanding if you understand that they do not teach inferiority of nature, but positional, functional issues like man/woman equality/headship).
I think shorter posts would be helpful if we are to systematically dialogue.
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An explanation for the increase in anointed
by pirata inremember, if you see this in the watchtower, or hear it in a talk, you heard it here first .
evidently, since we are so close to end of this system of things, god has seen it fitting to fill the final spots held open for the 144,000.. there.
simple, elegant, and doesn't require an overhaul of the 144,000 jw belief..
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godrulz
The two class system is patently false as is their 144K understanding. Reading much of the NT like it only applies to an elite few is a terrible paradigm. Seeing most of the NT as applying equally to every believer/disciple is what separates biblical Christianity from unbiblical WT.
The 144K are oddly taken as literal, while the same context (Jewish tribes) are taken as figurative?! This is an inconsistent, unwarranted hermeneutic. Rev. 6-19 is talking about the yet future Tribulation before Armageddon/Millennium, not WT, 1935, etc. The Great Crowd are martyred and before the throne in heaven. They will return at the end of the Trib and rule and reign with Christ over those who survive the Trib in natural bodies (heaven is not limited to a few, but the destiny of OT and NT saints during the Church Age). This is the Good News of the gospel, unlike the grievous passing of the emblems by everyone (Jn. 6 says you have no life in you if you do not partake and Jn. 3:3 NWT unless anybody...Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 5:1; Rom. 8:14 Are you led by the Spirit?).
I did point out that the number was increasing and I got a shrug from the elder. Another one admitted that they would have counted my tattoo, earring, cross-wearing freaky friend if he partook, as well as me, an opponent of all things WT. This seems dumb, if true, so the number is meaningless. It would not be hard to mobilize street people and church goers to crash the party and raise the number to millions of anointed ones (so-called). Would they count us all? (I chose to not partake in the sham memorial, but do so in my own church).
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The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Fair enough. Either the trinity is true or false. Embrace it if true (I do) or reject it as false (as many do). So, more basically, who is Jesus Christ? He is either uncreated Creator, Almighty God in the flesh or a created being (Arian heresy). Modalists (Oneness/Jesus only/Sabellianism, modal monarchianism) fully affirms the Deity of Christ, but rejects the trinity as much as JWs do. I can live with modalism (despite it being heretical), but cannot live with Arianism. The biblical, historical, orthodox view is trinitarianism which would naturally flow from an affirmation of the Deity of Christ and personality of the Holy Spirit.
I believe a denial of the Deity of Christ is a denial of the real Jesus in favor of a counterfeit one. Unless we believe that He is I AM (Jehovahistic identity), we will perish in our sins (Jn. 8:28; Jn. 8:58; Jn. 1:1; Jn. 20:28 Thomas got it right and was blessed vs rebuked...same phrase used of YHWH in the LXX Ps.). Michael JW Jesus does not exist and cannot save, a worthless counterfeit robbing the true Jesus of honor, worship, glory (without robbing the co-equal, co-eternal, co-essential Father the same).
Since I am from Canada and selling the trinity among JWs/ex-JWs is a tough sell, can I interest anyone in your warm climates to buy an igloo?
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
One cannot be saved by trusting a false christ. The object of our faith in important/vital (2 Cor. 11:4; Gal. 1:6-10). Mormons are not Christians trusting the biblical Jesus (they say Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer, Jehovah, one of many gods, product of a god having sex with Mary, an evolved man into god, etc.). JWs trust Michael the Archangel, a created Jesus. There is no such thing/person. Jesus claimed to be God, equal with God, same nature as the Father (Deity, not mere humanity or angelic). Confessing Him as Lord is to recognize His true person and work. Trusting a Spanish guy named Jesus will not save you. Trusting the Jesus of the cults or religions like Islam will not save you. Generic faith in an imaginary christ is not gospel saving faith in the true Jesus. We must confess Him for who He is, so His identity is not optional (or false, non-existent, worthless counterfeit Christs and religions are just as valid as biblical Christianity despite diametrically opposing views on the essentials).
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You need a messiah
by StopTheTears inyou might well ask that question, do we need a messiah?
yes, it would be logical to wonder whether a messiah would have any real effect on you.. .
some whose opinion you may respect would assure you that the answer is clear and unequivocal: you definitely do need a messiah, just as much as everyone else does.. .
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godrulz
John (Greek text inspired) talks about nailS in His hands. The WT stake thing is another error among many.
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JWN Is Not The Same Place It Was Years Ago . . .
by PublishingCult intd made the following statement over in another thread, and so i thought it would make a good topic of its own.. jwn is not the same place it was years ago and years from now, it won't be the same place as it is today.. how has jwn changed over the years, old timers?
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godrulz
What are foul smelling posters of H2O?! (broken promises)
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40
JWN Is Not The Same Place It Was Years Ago . . .
by PublishingCult intd made the following statement over in another thread, and so i thought it would make a good topic of its own.. jwn is not the same place it was years ago and years from now, it won't be the same place as it is today.. how has jwn changed over the years, old timers?
.
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godrulz
What other similar forums to this are there? Would this be considered the major one? I noticed a JW forum requires referral from another JW and they do not allow non-Witnesses there. Have some of you gone undercover there?
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Muslims/Mormons love each other, but that does not make them true. Love is the hallmark of a true Christian, but can be found even among an atheist group. Truth is more doctrinal, who God is, what He has done, etc.
The divinity of Christ that makes him subordinate and created is not what is meant by Deity of Christ theologically and biblically. Christ did claim to be equal with the Father. He was a Jew speaking to Jews. They understood His claim (John adds inspired commentary for us non-Jewish types) and went to stone Him for blasphemy. The Jews understood exactly what He was saying, but rejected it. JWs fail to understand His claim and would also reject it if they did (Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33; Jn. 1:1; Jn. 8:58; Jn. 20:28). New Agers could claim that Christ is divine, but not Deity. Divine would mean two true gods, yet there is only one true God and many false gods. We partake of His divine nature without being Deity (ontologically distinct). Jesus is not just a generic divine being/man, but God Himself incarnate. The Trinity is glorious truth, not just Catholic, not something to control people (huh?!).