Just because Plato used the word spirit or soul does not mean the biblical concept comes from Plato or that it is identical to Platonic thought (cf. Johannine use of 'logos'/Word vs Jewish/Greek uses).
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Essence/homoousias , etc. were Greek terms to define issues to separate orthodoxy and heterodoxy. Ontological terms may be philosophical, but they are still true. For e.g., God is spirit is a metaphysical statement in Jn. 4:24 that shows that God is not material. It is the stuff/being of God. It separates Him from man, rocks, trees, cookies, etc. These terms do not make a doctrine pagan and unbiblical, but they bring detail and precision in the face of heretical attacks that confuse the biblical parameters. It is important to state that Father/Son/Holy Spirit are of the same, one, eternal, uncreated spirit nature vs Arianism and polytheism. If we use a German, French, Greek, etc. concept, it does not change the reality of the biblical concept. Many WT concepts are not named in the Bible (theocracy, Governing Body, millennium, disfellowshipping, marking, blood transfusion, Christmas, voting, etc., yet a case is made for them, despite the labels; trinity word not in Bible is a typical, stupid WT argument, as is who ran universe if Jesus is God and He died for 3 days). Design is spouting WT propaganda out of ignorance of the history of doctrinal formation/dogma and Scripture itself. Many biblical, theological concepts can be described in technical, philosophical terms for precise communication. It does not make the truths pagan or any less true because the words are not in Scripture (most of the WT writing words are not explicitly in Scripture, including the name Jehovah itself!).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
It is either true or not. Though we do not understand it exhaustively, we can affirm the parameters it sets (God is one, yet compound vs solitary one). Once we know who Jesus is (YHWH/uncreated Creator vs creature) the rest follows (since monotheism is also obvious). There is no reason to give up on a triune understanding since revelation>reason (hundreds of millions find the trinity biblical and intellectually satisfying; it explains how God can become a man in Christ=incarnation/Immanuel, God with us).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Designs: there are no contradictions in the triune understanding, but there are in the WT straw man caricature of it (3 gods, 3 gods in 1 god, 3-headed god, 3 persons in 1 person). There is no contradiction to say that God is one in one sense (spirit nature), but plural/diverse in another sense (personal distinctions). Three personal distinctions in one infinite spirit of God is not contradictory (1X1X1=1, not 1+1+1=1, though He is 3 in one sense, but 1 in another sense).
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godrulz
yknot: biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity (formerly biblical Judaism in the OT). The essentials of the faith include the Deity and physical resurrection of Christ (Jn. 1; I Cor. 15), the gospel based on grace through faith in the person and work of Christ alone apart from works (Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16; Rom. 10:9-10; I Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; I Jn. 5:11-13), the Bible as the Word of God (correctly translated/interpreted/appied), etc. It is about the real gospel, the real Jesus, not a particular church or organization (there are biblical churches, but not one universal, centralized, autocratic organization/group). Evangelical Christianity (Pentecostal in particular, but not exclusively) is on the right track.
When JWs start doubting the WT, they wonder where to go if the WT is not true (since they fear and think every other group is demonic, etc.). The answer is a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ/YHWH who alone can give abundant and eternal life apart from manmade mother organizations that lead away from God/truth.
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godrulz
It is good to share Bible principles, but sad to bore people with a canned presentation. The Bible must also be translated/interpreted/applied properly, something Pharisaical JWs do not do often enough.
Religion has behavioral truths in common (often because based on Judeo-Christianity). One can be a 'better' person by living up to biblical principles on sexuality, love, family, etc. The problem is that false religion does not give the power for sinful man to live up to these high ideals all of the time.
Biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity (Deity of Christ; Bible as the Word of God, salvation by grace through faith alone apart from works, etc.) gives the power (Holy Spirit, personal, Deity) to live up to these things. It also alone has redemptive truth that leads to eternal life (what good is it for an atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Mormon, JW, etc. to be a better person and still end up separated from God after death).
I am thankful that my church has godly leadership that exegetes and applies Scripture with dynamic preaching and the anointing of the Holy Spirit (vs dead, polished, public speaking lectures). I am also thankful we worship in spirit and in truth and that the name of Jesus is exalted and the character and attributes of God are extolled. We also have genuine love and unity, not fear, control, and uniformity. We are not perfect, but the truth has set free with abundant and eternal life. Those who are turned off WT (rightly so) should realize that God is alive, His Word is truth, and there are churches in the land that are alive with the presence and power of God. The problem is not religion, God, Jesus, etc., but false religion and sinful men.
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151
Introducing Myself
by StandFirm inhello to jwn!
this is standfirm.
i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.
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godrulz
Picard, did you mean Raymond vs Fred Franz in your earlier post?
Standfirm's blog has an entry that the WT has never lied?! I am sure ex-JWs can give many e.g. The fact that they doctored earlier publications and literally changed dates in later editions to cover up false prophecy is blatant deception. Despite being shown that they misquote credible Christian sources, they do not change the shoddy 'scholarship', but continue to mislead with error (e.g. Mantey's stern rebuke/letter to WT over misquoting Greek grammar). They also knew about Johannes Greber (spiritist/occult), yet only distanced themselves much later when counter-cult ministries mocked their hypocrisy and desperation to find any obscure source to agree with their doctrine of demons (cf. Russell pyramid nonsense). What about the child abuse issues? Is there not lying going on there, even today?
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
The triune understanding is biblical, not pagan. WT are rationalists who want simple, pat answers for everything to make things reasonable and easy. God's reality and spiritual truth based on revelation may not be simple and revelation will always trump reason. Jesus even hid His identity as Messiah (truth) for much of His ministry. The full understanding of the doctrine of God was progressively revealed over time (so, Old Testament emphasizes monotheism, while Deity of Christ and personality/Deity of Holy Spirit awaits the NT Heb. 1:1-3). The trinity is systematically defensible and Arianism is refutable. We can show that there is one God by nature/substance/essence/uncreated spirit, that the Father is called God (and given names/titles/attributes of Deity), the Son is called God (at least 40 Deity of Christ verses vs 6 main Arian ones that usually refer to His humanity/humiliation/incarnation), the Holy Spirit is personal and God; yet, the Father is not the Son as to personal distinction, the Son is not the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Father. The only way to reconcile these parameters is a triune understanding (compound unity vs solitary being like Arian/Sabellian views).
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151
Introducing Myself
by StandFirm inhello to jwn!
this is standfirm.
i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.
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godrulz
The autocratic issues are cultic and odious, but the main reason to reject all things WT/JW is the heretical doctrines/teachings. If you truly searched credible sources against JWs (there is not much doctrinal defense on this forum) and remained JW, then you lack critical thinking skills (still indoctrinated) and are spiritually deceived by the enemy of your soul (demonic).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
wontleave....you said the tetra was not in the NT (I agree), but that is not what the WT has taught (they say it was removed from LXX and NT Greek, a completely false conspiracy theory based on the evidence). You question my credibility as a non-JW, but I question yours as a former JW still indoctrinated with too many of its errors:
http://jehovah.net.au/jehovah.html (can someone put that in a link?)