I suppose it makes people feel special to be 'ministers' as they trash the clergy class as from the devil. Any idiot with mental problems, no education, no life can become important in the group and trained to be a minister (I agree that all believers are ministers vs just paid clergy who may or may not even be true shepherds after God's own servant heart). The WT is driven by money (land, books, etc.) and relies on people being on the treadmill as consumers of the material and peddlers of it. Do people actually make donations at the door for this stuff? It is interesting that if a JW does sell something that they already paid for, the money goes back into coffers (double charge essentially). In light of the internet, the well should be drying up or slowing down eventually. Will July 15 WT be available online at WT site?
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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98
The "WOW!!" moment...Theocratic Ministry School was a sham!
by Terry ini just remembered something from long ago..... i moved to california in 1974 after i had been in "the truth" for 11 years, having full-time pioneered and also having served time in federal prison over the so-called christian neutrality issue.. i felt completely confident that my bible education was the best on planet earth.
i had honed my skills by door to door preaching, discussion, arguments and attendance at the theocratic ministry school.. i began working as an artist in a huge company that manufactured all kinds of art, sculpture and wall hanging.
the head of the artists was a wonderful young man, skilled artist and devout christian who took me under his wing.
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98
The "WOW!!" moment...Theocratic Ministry School was a sham!
by Terry ini just remembered something from long ago..... i moved to california in 1974 after i had been in "the truth" for 11 years, having full-time pioneered and also having served time in federal prison over the so-called christian neutrality issue.. i felt completely confident that my bible education was the best on planet earth.
i had honed my skills by door to door preaching, discussion, arguments and attendance at the theocratic ministry school.. i began working as an artist in a huge company that manufactured all kinds of art, sculpture and wall hanging.
the head of the artists was a wonderful young man, skilled artist and devout christian who took me under his wing.
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godrulz
The WT does strike me as a sales organization with techniques and canned presentations (cf. Mormon missionaries). The average JW is not thinking critically, just being indoctrinated into group think and pat answers. Raymond Franz came to his senses when he was forced to read Christendom's commentaries that put verses in context vs proof texts out of context. WT pseudo-scholarship is shoddy and dishonest. Their numerous errors and false doctrine proves that they are mere men groping in the dark, not a mouthpiece for Jehovah. I love the Bible and love conservative Christian scholarship. I don't know how JWs can stand what they are being fed (though it gives simple answers that appeal to the flesh, but fails to wrestle with the great doctrinal truths of Scripture that are not always presented in a neat systematic package like WT literature). I graduated with a Bachelor of Theology from the early 80s. I still remember the great Pauline exegesis I learned under a doctorate professor (who just retired at age 75 after teaching at a College for 35 years that has sent leaders to all corners of the planet). Godly, wise teachers in the Body of Christ make the WT look like kindergarten. Their Jn. 1:1 'a god' perversion is reason enough to not consider the WT a credible option as possible truth.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
myelaine: were you ever JW? I am from Edmonton, AB. You? God bless, sister. Please sign up on my are you a born again Christian thread. I appreciate your heart and head.
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93
Undercover apostates...
by Maze ini've observed some forum users here that claim to be active witnesses (even claims to be ministerial servants or elders) while duplicitously supporting apostates online.
my contention is this; why attend meetings and/or participate in the preaching activity when the second you divulge your apostate thinking into the congregation, you'll be disfellowshipped?
while this action taken may seem to be harsh, the outworking of events wouldn't be much different in one of christendom's churches.
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godrulz
Sweet baby: I do not have any friends or family associated with JWs. I may have a distant relative that I have met once in the last 50 years who was. My burden for JWs started as a new Christian, a God-given concern for the lost, cultists in particular (JWs deserve truth as does everyone).
Mad Sweeney: Geisler and Mix (see amazon.com) have a book on Introduction to the Bible. It is scholastic and gives internal and external evidence for the trustworthiness and veracity of the Bible (it is not begging the question if something it true and evidence based). You probably also have a problem with arguments for the existence of God (faith factor but based on revelation/evidence).
Pika: Freedom in Christ will include renouncing false religion and taking a stand, despite the cost. One can be wise, but a true believer will not mislead and give the impression they are supportive of false religion. JWs expect Catholics to break ties, so Christians can expect JWs to break ties with the WT even to the point of losing friends and family to follow Christ (Jesus said to leave them, let the dead bury the dead, if it is a matter of loving God supremely and family keeping us from following Him; the shunning would not come from the Christian, but the cultist...we should do everything we can to retain all relationships unless it keeps us from following God).
Prodigal: your atheistic low view of Scripture is based on misinformation. Alleged discrepancies/contradictions have been answered satisfactorily. The problem is that your idol god of your own making does not match the true and Living God, holy, majestic, awesome, just, loving, beautiful.
Pirata: Apostasy is falling from truth. It may be apostasy to a false religion to leave it for a true one, but this is not reality and not God's opinion. If JW/Muslim/Mormon is not true, converting to biblical Christianity is not apostasy, but a move from error to truth (vs move from truth to error). These groups can say it is apostasy from their lie, but it is not a judgment shared by the God of truth. If JW and evangelical Christianity are both false, then you have a point. A wrong assumption that Christian and cult are on par leads to a wrong conclusion. Just because you guys have left false religion does not mean that true religion does not exist (so don't give up).
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93
Undercover apostates...
by Maze ini've observed some forum users here that claim to be active witnesses (even claims to be ministerial servants or elders) while duplicitously supporting apostates online.
my contention is this; why attend meetings and/or participate in the preaching activity when the second you divulge your apostate thinking into the congregation, you'll be disfellowshipped?
while this action taken may seem to be harsh, the outworking of events wouldn't be much different in one of christendom's churches.
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godrulz
Scripture is inspired/God-breathed. The inspiration (original autographs), transmission (manuscripts), and canonicity is not a Catholic issue, but one that belongs to the whole church age under the providential guidance of the Holy Spirit. The WT also uses a 'Catholic' influenced canon (but rightly rejects Apocrypha) and even makes a big deal about a Catholic transliteration of YHWH (Jehovah). Catholics believe in the birth of Jesus and so does WT. This does not mean Catholics are JWs.
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93
Undercover apostates...
by Maze ini've observed some forum users here that claim to be active witnesses (even claims to be ministerial servants or elders) while duplicitously supporting apostates online.
my contention is this; why attend meetings and/or participate in the preaching activity when the second you divulge your apostate thinking into the congregation, you'll be disfellowshipped?
while this action taken may seem to be harsh, the outworking of events wouldn't be much different in one of christendom's churches.
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godrulz
I have been a witness of the true Yahweh of the Bible, but never been in the WT or associated with Jehovah of the WT, a false god concept. My experience is evangelical Christian from 18-51 years old.
A JW who becomes Catholic (there are similar parallels in these organizations) may be exchanging one religion/ritual for another. The person would be closer to the truth on virgin conception, Deity and physical resurrection of Christ, trinity, etc. They would have unbiblical ideas relating to salvation, Mary, Mass, purgatory, popery, etc. I am not Catholic because it is not the most biblical expression of biblical Christianity.
I believe there are Catholics that know and love the true Jesus and are saved despite Catholicism, not because of it. If one trusts Christ alone by grace through faith in the Catholic church, they can be saved (we are saved by grace/faith, not theological perfection). If one trusts the Mother Catholic church, priests, saints, Mary, good works, rituals, Mass, rosary, indulgences, etc., then they are trusting works, religion, self, not Christ. God will judge. Catholics are not in the same cult boat as JWs and Mormons because of their sound doctrine of God/Christology. The problem is that they add extra/contrabiblical traditions to Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone as authority). I would hope Catholics would read and pray and join a more biblical, pure church, but that does not mean it is impossible for a Catholic to be saved (essential vs peripheral issues). Many Catholics are biblically illiterate, hypocrites, nominal, and do not have a personal relationship with Christ, while others do, despite the other errors.
I agree with WT when it attacks certain aspects of Catholicism, but not on the issues that Catholics are right on (trinity, Deity/death of Christ, resurrection of Christ, Bible as the Word of God, etc.).
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godrulz
WT talks and writings are simplistic and boring, not profound, just basic. The wealth of conservative evangelical scholarship is vast, varied, vibrant. It is a sin to make the Bible boring.
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67
Sometimes You Just Gotta Score One For the Cult Members
by PublishingCult ini really don't care much for jw's at my door, or at anyone's door.
this chauvinistic, fanatical bully-a-hole, however, is one of the worst examples of a christian i have ever seen.
the jw's handled themselves very well in the face of this ridiculous bullying and taunting by this so-called christian attempting to school the jw's about god and the bible.
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godrulz
The gospel is the power of God. Jesus is the only way to eternal life (the real Jesus, not a counterfeit one). We are ambassadors for Christ with a mandate, regardless of how we are received (even to the point of dying for our beliefs). I respect your right to be wrong. Sincerity does not create truth. I am not targeting my comments to any one poster (who can freely skip my name/post).
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93
Undercover apostates...
by Maze ini've observed some forum users here that claim to be active witnesses (even claims to be ministerial servants or elders) while duplicitously supporting apostates online.
my contention is this; why attend meetings and/or participate in the preaching activity when the second you divulge your apostate thinking into the congregation, you'll be disfellowshipped?
while this action taken may seem to be harsh, the outworking of events wouldn't be much different in one of christendom's churches.
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godrulz
Apostasy is falling from truth. A born again Christian who becomes a Mormon, JW, or Muslim would be apostate. A false JW who leaves a false WT is not an apostate since they never had truth. They could move from being a false teacher to a born again Christian. In WT circles, they could call someone who leaves their group an apostate, but it would not be so in God's eyes. They would just be out of one false religion into another one or nothing. This is why there is still a spiritual vacuum when one leaves the WT that can only be filled by the real Jesus. As a JW, one is just a religious sinner vs atheistic sinner. Until one repents and trusts the real Jesus/YHWH, they remain condemned sinners in need of a sinless Savior.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Baptism is not a condition of salvation (repentant faith and continuance in the faith are the conditions, not works or rituals). Salvation is based on faith in Christ alone, but it must be the real, true Jesus, not a worthless counterfeit. Jehovah/Jesus of the WT do not exist. They are false views of the true God/Christ (cf. Mormonism/Islam).