Again, I was not quoting the traditional verses to support the Deity of Christ (you thought I was beating the trinity bush at first). I was establishing a principle that salvation is based on faith in Christ (not 'Jehovah', though Jesus is Jehovah) and that a counterfeit Christ of the WT is worthless/non-existent (same thing for Muslim concept or Mormon gods). The verse segments you are using are showing distinction between Father/Son, which we affirm. JWs typically think they disprove the trinity, but they actually disprove heretical modalism. I am not as dumb as you think.
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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53
Do Active Witnesses Find Meetings Exciting?
by Band on the Run inkh meetings were utter hell.
the boredom, particularly for a child, was awful.
i feel it was a form of child abuse.
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godrulz
I am thankful I did not grow up in a dead organization. When I go to church, I meet with God and His people. His presence is palpable (JWs would think it is a demon since they have no spiritual sensitivity and are scared of so many things) as the name of Jesus is exalted. A group that reduces the personal Holy Spirit to an impersonal active force will not know the presence and power of God. A group that does not exalt the Lord Jesus Christ as God will be dead religion void of a relationship with the risen Christ. This is fact, not arrogance (I have been to enough JW meetings to know that there is an oppressive spirit, not the Spirit of God).
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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godrulz
The verses were not about the Deity of Christ, per se, but about trusting Christ alone. It is an obvious principle that there is the true Christ and many false christs, worthless counterfeits. Typical of JWs, you think if you refute modalism that you are refuting trinitarianism (nope). JWs are also used to proof texts/eisegesis instead of sound exegesis. Verses can establish principles consistent with other verses, whereas JWs tend to bring up a verse to contradict another verse (instead of changing their view e.g. if we give a list of verses that prove the personality of the Holy Spirit, they will find a verse that describes His influence as power to try to support impersonal active force).
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Flock Book
by Iconoclast inhi guys,.
i used to have a copy of the flock book but no longer.
i went to the same link as i downloaded before and it's no longer working, pulled down by big brother, no doubt.
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godrulz
You might want to mention that this is the elder's manual (as a non-JW, I did not know what you meant at first).
Is putting this on the internet a problem for GB like the Mormon secret (not sacred) temple ceremony was? Does the average JW know about the book? Its contents? The Society has something to hide and is not transparent.
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2nd attempt - Big AHA moment for me !
by Lozhasleft inwontleave posted this on another thread:.
jesus is truth and when an organization tells you they're "truth", they're calling christ a liar unless they are an exact representation of him.. wow !!!!
of course...how could i have never noted this???
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godrulz
Truth does refer to Jesus. He is the embodiment of truth. The word is also used in the Bible about Scripture and the body of doctrine held by the early church. Using the phrase 'truth' is not the problem. It is a false group claiming to be truth when they are not (becomes false buzz word). Theocracy is not a word used in the Bible, but it is a biblical concept, just not exactly like JWs envision it.
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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godrulz
I have never said the trinity is salvific since I believe modalists can be saved (deny trinity like JWs do). I did say that the Deity of Christ is salvific because of Jn. 3:16; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom. 10:9-10; I Jn. 5:11-13; Gal. 1:6-10; 2 Cor. 11:4; Jude 3, etc.
The trinity is talked about before the 4th century. It can be defended from Scripture and is the only way to explain all the relevant verses vs few Arian proof texts out of context that are consistent with triune understanding. Forget the trinity. Focus on who Jesus is and the personality of the Spirit (vs active force nonsense). The rest will follow.
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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godrulz
I have the ISBE. Do you? It will make a cogent case for the trinity if you read the whole article in context. The bottom line is still affirming or refuting it with Scripture (Church Fathers are fallible). Many doctrines were not set in cement in the formative years of the early church, yet they are still accepted as true by JWs and others.
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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godrulz
Catholics are trinitarian. You are using a trinitarian source out of context (classic WT nonsense) to try to discredit the Trinity (cf. WT use of 'Two Babylons' by Alexander Hislop to discredit trinity despite him being a trinitarian?!). I have studied the history of dogma and understand the context. The bottom line is that it is rooted in Scripture and first century belief, but more formalized later in response to heresies such as your Arianism.
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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godrulz
These trinitarians were acting contrary to Scripture and their founder. It is an ad hominem argument since the vast majority of trinitarians condemn these things. One can also believe in the trinity/Catholic church and not be saved and not have a relationship with Christ. If a JW is a pedophile, that is not proof that their doctrine is wrong. They are living contrary to their truth, not consistent with it. The issue is beliefs, not how sinful people live contrary to them (there are many so-called Christians that are nominal and unregenerate despite some mental assent to orthodoxy).
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93
How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike
by jgnat inboth believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.
practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?
can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.
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godrulz
5. JWs will not come to my church, but I have gone to KH, Conventions, etc. freely with encouragement from my leadership. Truth does not run from error and believers are free, not slaves. Don't confuse controlling cults with Christianity.
8. Christian charity is unsurpassed and renowned. JWs do little for the community. The statement is true of JWs, but not fair of many or most churches.
JWs do not exalt Jesus as God (true statement) and deny the personality of the Holy Spirit (true statement). This is why there services are dead as door nails. They have religion, but lack relationship with God. I sense demonic oppression in JW and Mormon churches, but know and value the palpable presence of God in biblical churches (it is not arrogant to say that there are biblical and unbiblical groups).
Evangelicals also cover a broad spectrum of beliefs and practices, so are not as easy to stereotype as JWs (some evangelicals deny hell in favor of annihilation, etc.).
JWs and Pharisees (similar) are not wrong about everything. Belief in one God and the Bible is correct (Catholics fit the bill also). It is the many extra/contrabiblical beliefs and practices that are the issue.