Posts by HappyGuy

57

Evil lying Manipulators OR Captive Duped Slaves Duping Others (or some of both)?

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i see many threads that address this issue, but i still don't have a clear thought on this.

so i want your help.. the governing body misleads the members- no doubt.

they do change some of their history to make the wt organization look smarter or better-guided by "jehovah.

HappyGuy

I have my opinion about this based on the financial wealth of the WTBTS and all of its interconnected legal entities. Several years ago I produced a balance sheet for the WTBTS. This was right after I had concluded that their writings are evil. The next logical conclusion for me was to answer the question WHY? Why would someone purposely write such dishonest, misleading, evil literature in the name of serving God? Like someone said "Follow the money".

Anyway, I first made a chart of all the legal entities that can be traced to the WTBTS. This wasn't easy. The web of interconnected ownership is extremely complex and the true owners are very well hidden/obsfucated.

Next, I researched the publicly available sites like Edgar for stock purchases.

Next, I made a list of all the real estate holdings that the WTBTS will admit to. Later I found out that they own much more real estate than they admit to. Stories in the New York newspapers revealed the true nature of their real estate holdings.

The WTBTS is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. And they have a cash flow that is mind boggling. Figure. Publishers are "encouraged" to "place" 10 WT and Awakes a month. That is the quota last time I checked. And they are guilted into giving two donations for the magazines. First, they have to make a "voluntary" donation when they pick up the magazines, then they have to guilt the householders into make another "voluntary" donation to support the worldwide work after they have given the householder the magazines for free. (No, I am not making this up.) So, figure $20 a month for magazines per publishers. Many publishers buy much more than 20 magazines a month, they don't place them all, I'm not sure what they do with them, but they are guilted into donating to cover the cost of purchase. 7 million JWs x $20 = $140 million PER MONTH.

Now, publishers are admonished from the platform to make "voluntary" donations in the contribution box. I usually tried to give about $100 a month. I'm sure many JWs give a lot more and many a lot less but I think an average of $100 is about right. So, 7 million x $100 is $700 million. Now we are at $840 million per month. Assemblies are a huge money maker. Are they still running the scam where they tell the facilities managers that parking will be free at the assemblies but then they force the publishers to buy "tickets" for parking, oh with voluntary donations no doubt, ahead of time or they can't park at the assembly facilities? Do they still have 3 assemblies a year? So, figure 10 million attending 3 assemblies a year, that is 30 million and figure $20 a head in donations and whatever latest scam is being run. That is $600 million.

Now, we haven't even talked about people putting the WTBTS in their wills, or elderly JWs donating their assets in trusts. No one kmows how much this adds up to but say that 1% of the JWs donate $50,000 a year in these special ways, that is 70,000 x $50,000 = $35 million.

I saved real estate transactions for last for a reason. I distinctly remember a district convention from the mid 80s where the WTBTS was patting itself on the back about a new brother who had been invited to Bethel. I mean the dude was baptized one day and in Bethel the next day. Not as a worker, high up in the leadership. The bragging was over the fact that this new brother had been one of the top real estate sales people in New York and he turned down a $1 million dollar bonus offer from his company in order to resign and go to Bethel.

Now, soon after this the WTBTS went on a buying spree in New York city. they bought up huge tracts of waterfront property, warehouses, multi story buildings, apartments, etc. The real estate market in New York ctiy was depressed at this time, they got a lot of bargains.

I never put these two links together till much later. 1. The best real estate person in New York city gets batized. 2. A few days later this person is invited to come to Bethel. 3. The WTBTS goes on a buying spree and makes some VERY shrewd purchases.

The WTBTS sold most of this property at the top of the market. No one knows for sure how much they got in total. they lie about the actual number of properties involved. I think the number is over $1 BILLION. Now they have announced that they are selling out of New York city nad moving lock stock and barrel to the country. Well, knowing that one of the best real estate brains in New York city is at Bethel now we know why they would do this.

Oh, if you ever want to see what the "new system" will be like, you really need to visit the neighborhoods near the WTBTS buildings in Brooklyn. Those neighborhoods are totally lifeless. The buildings are drab, dull, USSR Soviet style architecture, one architect called them "landlocked ships", and there is no activity in the neighborhoods. The businesses that are near the HQ struggle because the JWs spend NOTHING. You never see the JWs out and about unless they are rushing to work another shift. They illegally put 7 people in apartments meant for 2. The people who live in the areas around the WTBTS holdings despise the WTBTS.

New York reporters were tracking the real estate dealings of the WTBTS for a while but I don't think even they could pierce the veil of secrecy and the web of legal entities that obsfucates everything the WTBTS does.

So, what are we up to now? Income of $840 million a month from donations. $600 million a year from asemblies. $35 million a year from idiots putting the WTBTS in their wills and the elderly setting up trusts for the WTBTS. Income from real estate dealings. > $1 billion.

The WTBTS will argue that they need this money for the "worldwide work". But what are their expenses? Practically ZERO. When a congregation builds a kingdom hall the WTBTS actually makes money on it. The workers at the various institutions don't get a salary, you might as well say they work for free. The WTBTS pays no taxes. This multi billion dollar income per year is NET income.

Now, I haven't even got to the part that is going to make your head explode, or as Glenn Beck says "make bloood shoot out of your eyes". Corporations have stockholders. If you go back to the corporation that Russel set up, Russel arranged it through his bullying that out of the 50,000 people who were elgible to own stock, only 50 actually did. These 50 stockholders still exist. Not the original people of course, but the stock has been transferred through the years. Transferred to who? No one knows. These 50 stockholders control the "society". And they control the immense wealth of the WTBTS. Now the GB will argue that they changed the charter of the WTBTS of New York in 1944 so that there are no longer any stockholders. And that is true, sort of. But the New York corporation is not the controlling interest. The original corporation set up by Russel is the controlling interest, and that corporation has 50 shareholders.

It is these people who are behind the lies, the propaganda, the brainwashing. And no one knows who they are. Isn't that creepy?

18

The tone and voice of the WTBTS publications/writings

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i hope this doesn't sound too strange.

the first wtbts book that i read was the studies in the scriptures.

my grandfather gave my favorite cousin the entire set when we were both around 12. we read these books cover to cover like they were comic books.

HappyGuy

Also, I think the mentality is less "us against them", and increasingly "the more spiritual of us against the less spiritual of us".

This is exactly what I was feeling about the WTBTS but I coudlnt' find the words to express it. I was always made to feel guilty, that I was never doing enough, and there were these spiritual "giants" who I could never emulate.

When I started reading the literature with an open mind I saw so many absurdities. Like in all the year books, 100% of the true life stories celebrated the fact that the person/couple were janitors. The GB constantly bashed professional and white collar careers and loved the idea of a JW being a janitor.

I finally came to the conclusion that the GB gets some perverse pleasure from fucking with the "flock" after recognizing such absurdity for what it was.

18

The tone and voice of the WTBTS publications/writings

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i hope this doesn't sound too strange.

the first wtbts book that i read was the studies in the scriptures.

my grandfather gave my favorite cousin the entire set when we were both around 12. we read these books cover to cover like they were comic books.

HappyGuy

I want to thank everyone for such well thought out answers. I especially appreciated the link to the bag of tricks. So, I wasn't crazy or an idiot after all to get taken in by the WTBTS for all those years.

I was so zealous when I was younger and then I had a shipwreck of faith. But, of course I had a shipwreck of faith because it was a faith based on lies.

31

Trying to annul your baptism, WT says forget about it.

by cattails in

jw
friends

the koolaid wt issue for february has an interesting article about when your baptism can be considered invalid.but the main thrust of the article is aimed at making it super clear that if you were present at your bapt.

talk and answered the two questions then forget about it, elders are put on notice to not let anyone off the hook.but... if you were committing a serious sin and hid it at the time of your baptism, then it was invalid, and point is, they'd still announce you not being "one of j.w.s" so if you plead your case to walk away from the wt saying you didn't know what you were getting into, it will do no good, but it will be grounds for an announcement.just ol' mother wt tightening up loose ends.

HappyGuy

I was baptized in 73, so the questions were a bit different.

Didn't they make one of the questions something along the lines that by your baptism you are announcing that you are an OBEDIENT member of the WTBTS? They call it "God's organization" in the question (I think) but WTBTS claims to be god's only "approved" organization, so its the same.

If nothing else shows that the WTBTS is not Christian adding a question like this to the baptism "process" certainly does it. What does Revelation say "...who adds ... anything ....the lake of fire"? Also, in the baptisms mentioned in the Bible I don't read about a "process" that is being followed except for the immersion in water. Jesus didn't have to take an oral quiz first. That part must be new light.

43

Lawyer Letter copy to Judicial Committee

by Gayle in

jw
friends

charles, smith & bellah.

a professionall cof*qp*.t!on.

attorneys at law .

HappyGuy

The so called "elders" will just schedule a "special" talk where they will discuss the facts relating to the person's case in a "generic" way and the talk will give "counsel" that the congregation should mark any person who commits such acts. Of course, everyone will know exactly who they are talking about thanks to the gossip hotline. And, of course the "elders" will deny that they are talking about anyone in particular.

51

Emailed Talk From Governing Body Member Last Weekend

by tryingtoexit in

jw
friends

what's good a-ebody??

just thought i'd share this email with yall real quick.

it still amazes me that i was a jehovah's witness for 27 years and never thought twice about these types of talks other than i need to make sure my act is together when the end comes, and now i can't even read/hear it without getting mad.

HappyGuy

Since they no longer teach we are in a judgement period, of course we would be resurrected.

Wow. They really stopped teaching that we live in a judgement period? So, all the people who were told that if they died in a state "not strong in the truth" they would not be resurrected, what happens to them? Let's see, since it is THE TRUTH, then they had to die in judgement, so they won't be resurrected, but now the "TRUTH" has changed, so now they didnt die in judgement, so now they DO qualify for the resurrection.

I wonder how Jehovah keeps score?

I would hate to have the job of editing the book of life. "Oh man, now we have to add all those names BACK IN the book of life". "You mean the ones we just finished removing from the book of life because they died during the judgement period but they were not "strong" IN THE TRUTH?"

Jehovah must be very confused the way "The truth" keeps changing.

18

The tone and voice of the WTBTS publications/writings

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i hope this doesn't sound too strange.

the first wtbts book that i read was the studies in the scriptures.

my grandfather gave my favorite cousin the entire set when we were both around 12. we read these books cover to cover like they were comic books.

HappyGuy

I hope this doesn't sound too strange. The first WTBTS book that I read was the studies in the scriptures. My grandfather gave my favorite cousin the entire set when we were both around 12. We read these books cover to cover like they were comic books. These books were so interesting.

I didn't know about the connection between the studies in the scriptures and the WTBTS until later of course.

I didn't go to college of course, I got baptized in 1973, and while the WTBTS denies they ever said it, we were told that college was totally out of the question.

In the early 90s I got a career that required a lot of research and study, real scholarship. When you really study written works you start to notice a tone and a voice in the works.

In the early and mid 90s I started noticing the tone of the publications of the WTBTS. I'm not even sure if I have the right words to describe it. Cold, dictating, snarky, talking down to the readers, a know it all smugness.

I read every bound volume of the WT magazine from the early 60s to 1994 when I was trying to recover my faith and I noticed that hateful tone in ALL the publications.

I find this very odd. Since the publications are written by a group of people, not one person, how can they all have the same hateful tone?

I can only come to one of two conclusions about this. Either, there is a "holier than you maggots crawling around under the rocks" group think that permeates the headquarters and the people who do the writing get inculcated in this attitude. Or, and this is what I think is really the case, the WTBTS is under the control of demons. Because if you wanted to see what the inspired writings of demons would sound like, just read the WT. Now, I don't really believe in the bible's description of angels and demons, heaven, and hell. But, I do know that there are beings out there that are malevolent. What they are exactly I don't know, but I know they exist.

I'm guessing that writings that really were "inspired" of a being who "....is love" would have a much different tone. Light hearted, happy, optimistic, loving, caring, that is what inspired writings of a being who "....is love" would be.

The WT is definitely not light hearted, not happy, is very pessimistic, it does not inspire one to fill one's heart with light and love and joy. It inspires servitude.

I am wondering if any one else has noticed this tone and voice in the WTBTS writings.

39

The homeless sister and the $60,000 RV

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i was in a congregation once which had a large number of desperately poor people in it.

there was an elderly sister, she lived near me, a sweet woman, who became homeless because her ramshackled old house caught fire.

around that same time one of the overseers (imagine that using a slavery term), i forget if it was district or circuit overseer, came to town wanting a new rv/truck combo.

HappyGuy

I wanted to respond to some of the questions that people asked about this.

The vote to give the money to the circuit/district overseer was all in favor except for me. I voted no. This was even after I pointed out how wrong this was.

The congregation was in a rural area in the united states.

I left the quick build program shortly after this episode.

I don't know how to say this exactly but for a long time I was fed up with the bureaucracy and the power hierarchy. I tried to talk to several friends about this and they always repeated the mantra about god needing an "organization". I'm not a Christian any more, so I am not one to say what "christian like" should be but I always felt like a rigid bureaucracy / power hierarchy was definitely NOT christian like.

If Wavy Gravy can feed 400,000 drugged out Woodstock denizens for four days and provide security and medical treatment with his group of wacked out flower power hippies in a spirit of love and understanding, surely god could get things done without needing an organization based on a power hierarchy and rigid bureaucracy.

Long live Wavy Gravy.

39

The homeless sister and the $60,000 RV

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i was in a congregation once which had a large number of desperately poor people in it.

there was an elderly sister, she lived near me, a sweet woman, who became homeless because her ramshackled old house caught fire.

around that same time one of the overseers (imagine that using a slavery term), i forget if it was district or circuit overseer, came to town wanting a new rv/truck combo.

HappyGuy

I was in a congregation once which had a large number of desperately poor people in it. I was one of those. There was an elderly sister, she lived near me, a sweet woman, who became homeless because her ramshackled old house caught fire. Around that same time one of the overseers (imagine that using a slavery term), I forget if it was District or Circuit overseer, came to town wanting a new RV/truck combo. I asked "what is wrong with the one you have, it is only two years old". Anyway, the city overseer decided to have each congregation raise money to buy the new RV and the new truck and "donate" them to the circuit/district overseer. I had been bugging the elders and the city overseer to take up a donation drive for the elderly homeless sister but they responded angrily with their mantra "the society is not a social welfare organization" to which I pointed out that we were giving someone who did not need it over $100,000 worth of RV and truck, so was that not a "social welfare" act. I suggested that instead of giving these priveleged people something they did not need and most of the brothers could not afford to give that instead we build the homeless sister a small home on her lot and foundation. Of course they wanted nothing to do with this. During the meeting where they were announcing their plans to take up the donation from our hall, we had a quota of $30,000 to meet (if I remember right), I raised my hand and stood up and said that I thought it was a waste of money to give priveleged people a new RV and truck when their current one was two years old and instead we should give the money to the homeless sister and build her a house. (I was on the quick build committee at the time and wanted to arrange a quick build for the sister).

Needless to say the "brothers" did not like my interfering with their scheme to take money from poor people and give it to priveleged people who do not need it so that they would look good in the overseer's eyes. First they cut off my microphone, so I just talked louder, then they told me I had to leave the Hall, and I said "perhaps you would like to assist me with leaving?" and I wasn't going anywhere until they explained to the entire congregation why they thought it was loving to take money from poor people and give it to rich people and ignore the needy sister in their midst.

Well, they didn't budge of course, I voted no on the motion to give the donation to the overseer. Then I worked with the sister's WORLDLY relatives to build her a small house from materials we salvaged and got from construction sites and demolition sites and what little money we could scrape together. Of course the quick build committee would not call a quick build on behalf of the sister, so I put one together with the sister's worldly relatives. So much for quickl builds being possible only because of the Holy Spirit.

I told the "brothers" at one point, "you people are operating under the mistaken belief that you have control over me, you do not".

Ah, the love.

66

Did you Exit the Witnesses Gradually - Or Exit Suddenly - Your Reasons ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

i thought it would be good to discuss it to understand what caused some of us to exit suddenly, or some to exit gradually .. myself , i had been in 44 years , had mentally had doubts for years before exiting - but injustices by the elders and my doubts about the " generation " doctrine led me to exit suddenly one night before a meeting.

the elders pissed me off , i went to my seat, picked my books up and walked out - never going back.

so what is your story and reasons ?

HappyGuy

Not sure why I am writing this. It is painful. I haven't thought about the Watchtower in a long time.

I started reading the Bible when I was 9. My mom had one of those leather bound, large family Bibles that they used to sell door to door in Appalachia. My mom paid $50 for that Bible in 1956. Can you imagine?

I remember reading the story of the leper and Jesus. And the leper says "Lord, if you but want to you can make me clean." And Jesus with tears in his eyes reaches up and touches the man and replies "I WANT TO, be made clean".

I had a very rough childhood, and in Jesus I found a friend, a friend that my father could not take away from me. And in the Bible I found love, true love.

When I was 12 I started looking for God's people. The Bible told me that they follow The Way. I went to churches, joined the Campus Crusade for Christ for a while, but I never felt like I found the loving people that God's people must be. When I was 15 I went to the Memorial thanks to an invitation that was on our coffee table. My parents were opposed so I hitchhiked to the meeting. Of course the Witnesses made me feel like the long lost son returning home. Home.

I thought that I had found God and found His people and 3 months later I was baptized.

I never could handle the door to door preaching work, I always felt like I was hit in the stomach with a baseball bat when standing at the door. Funny, I shared God with everyone I met in my daily life but couldn't bring myself to preach at the doors.

I always felt like a failure because of my meager field service reports. Of course the elders made sure I felt that way. Funny, the congregation always knows who is not reporting an acceptable amount of "time". how do they know? Aren't field service reports supposed to be private?

I never would ask for money for the literature. I usually just took a Bible with me in the field service. Of course I was lectured for not asking for money and not using the magazines or the books. I asked more than once, "So, the Bible is not good enough?".

I always had this image in my mind, and this feeling in my heart that true Christians would experience a kind of love that was totally uninhibited.

Of course, the Watchtower society does not instill real love in its members, it instills conformity. It is easy to accept someone who is conforming to the rules. But be a bit different or have a field service report that is not up to standard and the cold wars will greet you.

I always felt guilty, not good enough, and I loved God so much and wanted to be a "strong" Christian so desperately.

I always felt like the poor relation in the congregations. I had no interest in being a ministerial servant or an elder. Of course, if you are a brother and are not "reaching out" for those positions you are viewed as spiritually "weak".

After I had been a Witness for 21 years, I got into a career that required lots of moves. I had been very poor most of my life and I got a job as a computer consultant. I had never worked in corporate America before and the constant moving and the corporate work environment put a strain on me that was difficult to deal with.

I couldn't handle feeling guilty any more and I stopped going to meetings. This shipwreck of faith bothered me a lot and I really do love God so I decided to do something to restore my faith. In my new career I learned what true scholarship is and learned how to study and research something as a scholar. So, I decided to study the Bible, really study it. And not just the Bible but other mytholody and history that sheds light on the Bible.

I also read everything that the Watchtower society had published that I could get my hands on. Strange, but my favorite Watchtower books were the Studies in the Scriptures. My cousin has a set, we used to read them as children.

My efforts to renew my faith actually had the opposite effect. I realized that the Watchtower Society is just a hierarchical power structure that keeps people in line using guilt but they do not have any spiritual guidance to give anyone. Sit down and read the bound volumes through over a few years sometime and you will see the same drivel repeated over and over again.

What made me leave? The lack of real love. The hierarchical power structure. The way guilt is used to ensure conformity. The total lack of any real spiritual guidance.

I also came to the realization that the Bible is not words from God. It is words of men. "Jehovah" is not God's name. "Jehovah" is a demon from ancient mythology. The "god" of the Old Testament is a genocidal maniac. The Yahwehists were unbelievably cruel, evil people. The Old Testament was written to justify the horrific deeds of these awful people, the Yahwehists.

I don't believe that the First Cause is the "god" described in the Bible. The Bible would have us believe that "god" is all knowing, all present, total love, all powerful... Yet, this "god" has allowed human and animal kind to suffer unbelievable evil. I am a sensitive person and when I see someone getting hurt or being mistreated or treated unjustly it bothers me, it bothers me greatly. I don't claim to be pure love as the Bible claims that God is in 1 John 4:8. If I, as a mere human, experience great pain when seeing others in pain, how would a "god" who is pure love be able to just sit by and do nothing? Since "god" is all knowing, all powerful, all seeing, all present, and pure love why is it that "god" allows suffering? Either "god" is powerless to stop suffering, or is indifferent and does not care, or is evil and enjoys it, or is mentally incompetent, or is so far removed from us and so different from us that we just don't matter, kind of like how we ignore the microscopic organisms all around us. Whatever the case is I do not believe that the "god" portrayed in the Bible is real.

This does not mean that I don't believe that there is an intelligence responsible for the Universe, Life, and Everything, I just think that whatever the First Cause is, we cannot understand it because it is beyond our universe. It is kind of like expecting a line to understand a cube. The line would only be able to see the cube as a line. Whatever the First Cause is, it is beyond our ability to understand it.

For a book written by men to claim to be able to describe the First Cause in detail I think is extraordinarily prideful (and delusional).