Evil lying Manipulators OR Captive Duped Slaves Duping Others (or some of both)?

by OnTheWayOut 57 Replies latest jw friends

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  OnTheWayOut

  I see many threads that address this issue, but I still don't have a clear thought on this. So I want your help.

  The Governing Body misleads the members- no doubt. They do change some of their history to make the WT organization look smarter or better-guided by "Jehovah." They hide information from recruits and from full-fledged members. But I can only speculate on how much of this is deliberate willful deceit from those that know they are not contacted by the spirit of Charles Russell, angels, Jesus, or Jehovah.

  I do have to consider that changing your history is willful. Telling people that they "looked forward" to 1914 as they say now that they did is clearly deliberate. Trying to run a campaign back in the 1980's and 90's that they once proclaimed that millions now living MAY never die, when they know good and well that they proclaimed that those millions WILL never die back in the 1920's- that is deliberate. Changing doctrines such as "generation" cannot be some feeling that comes over the GB that Jehovah has offered more light, so I feel that much doctrine and rules changing is based on corporation desires of membership and monetary contributions.

  Personally, I think that C.T. Russell believed a bunch of his own crap. I beleive that J.F. Rutherford believed very little of his own crap but enjoyed the Cadilacs and the travel and the obedience. But after these two, I have less conviction in my beliefs. Whether Knorr and Fred Franz believed the world was going to end in 1975 or not is unclear. It does seem that the corporation was braced for the end not actually coming, and it continues to dig in to survive longer in "this system of things" now. I cannot imagine from reading Ray Franz' books that the GB meets and actually says openly that they need to come up with new crap to deceive the members. Still, they come up with new crap to deceive the members somehow.

  I can imagine each GB member secretly knowing that Jehovah (or the ghost of C.T. Russell) is not reaching them in their dreams nor their waking state during/after prayer to tell them how to vote on an issue or how to address an issue within their membership. I can imagine them being afraid to say anything to the other GB members about it, assuming that Jehovah (or the ghost of C.T. Russell) is actually reaching their cohorts on the GB.

  So, what do you think? How can you sway me or others? Some would say that the lies they spread through print and assembly parts are just a part of their own feelings that they are stewards of Jehohah's organization where the membership needs sheltering from some hard realities. Othes would say they are greedy bastards that know the funds would dry up if they fully disclose information. Give your thoughts on this.
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  VIII

  I believe that they are evil, lying manipulators. They know that it is a false *religion* and that they will lose their positions of power if it were ever disclosed that they, and their predecessors were a bunch of frudulent Wizards. People so badly want Hope. People so badly want to believe that there is something better and that they can have a piece of that pie. All they have to do is follow a prescribed plan.

  The JWs (Bible Students) came up with a prescribed plan. All they had/have to do is find people who are looking for HOPE. They are doing it as every other *religion* has done. Telling people they need to have faith. How can you question faith? Faith in something is built upon something intangible. You are going to just have to trust in *Something*. In the JWs case it is Jehovah. And by extention, the GB, the FDS.

  They know exactly what they are doing. The old saying holds true: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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  VIII

  As an aside: Everytime I talk to my Mom or any of my JW relatives, it is all about the New System. Their whole religion is built upon the New System. That is a powerful way to get people. That piece of the pie, that hope for Everlasting Life, is a powerful tool. And the resurrection. Two things that, of course, have never happened, so it is totally blind faith. You have to do what we say, when we say or you won't make it. Faith and hope. Power for them.
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  undercover

  Personally, I think that C.T. Russell believed a bunch of his own crap. I beleive that J.F. Rutherford believed very little of his own crap but enjoyed the Cadilacs and the travel and the obedience.

  Yea, I agree with that...especially Rutherford. He was the one who said, "religion is a snare and a racket". I think he realized what a racket it was and how much more lucrative it was than being a lawyer, so he finagled his way in and took over and began the history of the JWs as a cult.

  As for the later presidents and GB members, I think there's a combination of people who did believe and wanted it to be right and those who, at some point, figured out it was all BS but were in too deep and had it too easy, so they just stuck with it. It's those lying bastards that have manipulated and controlled and re-written their history to keep the sheeple fooled and the money coming in so they can keep their lifestyle intact.
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  snowbird

  Luke 11:34 " Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness. 35 See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness." NIV

  The WT has "bad" eyes.

  They need to buy eye salve from the Master so they can correct their erroneous views.

  Sylvia
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  BlackSwan of Memphis

  Fear and pride

  They certainly aren't stupid. They have deliberately lied to protect their butts.

  Why do that? What do they have to save? I may not know anyone in the Ivory towers, but I have met a number of people working up there and it has not struck me that any of them are making enough cash for a posh pad.

  So I don't think it's the money.

  I think that were they to truly consider that they have made a grave error, they would have to face some very harsh judgement. Further, to admit, at that point, how very, very wrong you are, takes a great deal of humility.

  I don't think of them as evil. I think slaves is probably accurate. They are slaves to themselves and sense of pride. That is how I see them.

  It's sad, but what is more sad, is that so many people fall into believing the junk and therefore make themselves slaves to other slaves. The blind leading the blind.....
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  JWoods

  I would say that Knorr was a perfect example of the businessman-manipulator who believed little of the BS. Franz was an example of the true self-delusional believer.
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  BluesBrother

  I favour the thought that they are more of the "duped by their own false reasoning" class.

  We know how we felt in the congregation, when we were in. If you want to see the world as wicked then there are plenty of things that can reinforce your choice of belief. It is so easy to become insular, seeing only what you want to see, the things that reinforce your beliefs.

  Imagine how it is at Brooklyn, with sycophants surrounding you. It may become near impossible to consider that you are not the Lords chosen ones .I know Ray Franz did it but he was remarkable. The others are not so brave.
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  sir82

  I suspect many of them are aware of mistakes, even grave ones that have cost lives, but I think that these guys really believe that somehow, through it all, it is still "the visible part of Jehovah's Organization". Lying, obfuscating, presenting a whitewashed picture to outsiders, is all justified by the idea of "protecting the organization" and "not bringing reproach on Jehovah's name".

  I think they've repeated it enough, that they really have come to believe that they are "over all Christ's belongings".

  Unity is more important than truth. Somehow they've got it in their heads that Jehovah will preserve and bless them if the organization is "united", even if a "few details" aren't quite right.

  Of course, their idea of "unity" is more like "unthinking unquestioning lock-step conformity", but that's another topic for another post.
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  JWoods

  Didn't somebody once post that Knorr was always against the blood transfusion ban, but Franz desperately wanted it to "make a mark"...?

  Also, wasn't there something in the Ray Franz COC that the GB vote was very, very close on several matters involving the draft and Malawi party cards?

  I would give it maybe 25/75 with the 75 being delusional true believers and about 25 being cynics who are just going with the flow.