a summary for you guys of the rather lengthy discussion about peoples ability to leave the organisation:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpir8vjsdre&feature=youtu.be.
Awesome video summary! Thanks Controller!
After GJ concedes about the awfulness of the shunning practice, Mr. Stewart can't get him to make the logical step that this practice makes the JW religion a "captive" organization.
I guess you can lead a GB member to water, and Mr. Steward tried really hard, but you can't make him drink.
q: is there anyone that has the permanent role of coordinator or chairman?.
geejay: no, we rotate yearly...... (translaton) we are all sparticus.. geejay: we are a faith driven org, we are not a group of lawyers, being overly concerned with legal matters..... fave quotes .
on establishing headship principle 1cor 14: 33-35, 1 cor 11:3. geejay:...... that's talking about women not excitedly jumping up arguing with others..... geejay: ......our literature has said it, and we agree!.
Governing Body = Guardians Of Doctrine = GOD
GJ was "over the top" in granting himself and the rest of his cabal interpretation privileges. He's more into the "interpretation" business than the "translation" business.
Several times he seemed to be "clarifying" that it "takes a village" to come up with their doctrines. Some old doctrines are thrown out like the baby with the bathwater when more beneficial and profitable doctrines come along.
To allow the Royal Commission to influence the GB's decisions is paramount to spiritual immorality, as they accuse other religions of being manipulated by governments. If we are to take their current doctrine as founded on Scripture (the "JW's constitution", how can the GB accept to be "forced" to change what they've been teaching as guided and lead by Holy Spirit?
GJ wants all the glory and none of the accountability.
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https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
Jackson said several times that they don't have a doctrine police who searches out wrong doing.
Well, what about sitting in a car stalking publishers who are suspected of of breaking rules? Driving by a member's house to see if they have Christmas decorations up, or if their car was parked outside someone's house all night?
So all faders, keep this video handy for when a bunch of nosey elders start getting judicial with you, you can get all Geoffrey Jackson on their asses.
It's so obvious to someone who's been in that this guy, Jackson, is either not acquainted with actual JW elders' practice or is being deceptive about what actually takes place.
the big day finally arrived!
these amazing royal commission proceedings are available on youtube :).
part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 will soon be available.. part 1:.
@Controller
Thanks so much for making these available, they're an incredible look behind the curtain into the minds of these "older men".
@TheSearcher
29:20 - 31:15 = Publications are not written or researched by the G.B. - they only read them! Woo-hoo, I'm as good as the G.B. because I can read too!
Didn't we all sort of feel that was the case, that the GB are being used as figure heads pretty much?
So who really sets the doctrine and the procedures? Who comes up with the ideas?
Jackson sort of alluded more than once about the GB "helpers" 30 of them who are the ones quite active in researching and coming up with teachings for the GB to approve. Like the "overlapping generation" don't they just "love" that idea!!! Well, some helper must have come up with it and definitely not through divine inspiration.
geoffrey jackson spent 20 minutes accepting the position that it is not scripturally prohibited for women to be used in the investigation process, although probably not the jc itself (he said he'd check the scriptures on that bit, but we can guess the outcome).. look out for the wives of elders jostling for and gaining these positions.
there will be no better opportunity for gossip mongers to raise their status in the congregation than being officially involved in the intimate private business of others in the congregation.. think of the power they will have in advising the elders on a jc if she thinks the victim is credible, with her opinion, bias and embellishments on the details.
i wouldn't fancy the chances of a victim who has previously fallen out with one of these 'helpers'.. whatever next, sisters handling microphones??!
Oh, Judas Priest!
I can just about imagine the sisters who get to "assist" with a case, forever after acting high and mighty because they had a "privilege" not usually granted to sisters in the congregation. I'm sure that gossip would spread among the new class of helpers, their being able to talk "confidentially" to others who are now in this "assistant to the judicial committee investigation" class.
Quite certainly, the publications will spin this as a "loving arrangement", to have sisters help out, there being no Biblical restrictions on such a thing as women assisting a judicial committee. But just like with the compilation of the elders manual, I'm sure there will be all sorts of legalistic minutia and prohibitions that will rein in the new "mature JW female" assistants.
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https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
Oh, the myriad of little ones taken out of the meeting for being antsy and spanked in the foyer or one of the schools!
That Jackson says JW's don't practice corporal punishment is a blatant lie. It is encouraged in the public talks and by the counsel of the elders to keep the household under subjection.
There was this elder named Chesborough who gave the very same talk in our congregation over the years, three or four times. His illustrations were always the same, and memorable due to their graphic nature about giving his daughters a good spanking over the knee well into their late teens for not being "under subjection". He just about bragged and gloated how corporal punishment kept them under control through their early youth and into their "troubled" teenage years.
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https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
Oh, and sorry, but I can't remember the various female judges off the top of my head. I'm terrible with Bible stories.
Well, there is Deborah, in Judges 4, who was a judge over all of Israel.
Given their love of Hebre Scriptures for support of their doctrines and religious procedures, this would mean that women could be allowed to be judges.
Also the women prophets in the Christian Greek Scriptures were allowed to tell their prophecy in the congregation and had precedence over speaking in tongues, etc. So there is clear guidance that women could take an active role in teaching God's Word in the congregation.
Paul also talks about Phoebe who was a "diakonos" (a word in the masculine gender applying not to her being a what we would think og just a plain "servant" but a "minister" or a "deacon" today, it was a position of service and responsibility, and it was filled by a woman.
Paul shows a lot of prejudices common to the age he lived in. This is clear in how he talks about slaves and slave owners.
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https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
Jackson was wrong in saying they do not punish the wrongdoer--yeah, they can't stone people, but they do shun and this form of punishment causes psychological trauma that can lead to physical manifestations.
New research coming out in psychological literature points to the "nocebo" effect, self fulfilling prophecy that telling someone they are no good may lead the person to actually do bad and suffer consequences, and also lead to all sorts of mental turmoil and stress.
JW/WT doctrine and procedures regarding DA/DF'ing do cause harm and they are indeed a form of punishment, perhaps even causing a greater degree of anguish and suffering for a long period of time.
Excommunication from the Catholic Church doesn't carry the penalty of forced shunning on the part of family and friends. And yet the WT saw this as barbaric and pagan, not for the Christian congregation.
The WT publishes contrary ideas quite often, and followers are expected to live with this disonance of conscience and beliefs all along following and obeying every interpretation and publication by the Gobbering Body and its helpers.
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https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
The trouble to the two witness exception of a female raped in a field is negated by Pauls counsel not to accept accusation against an elder unless there are two or three witnesses.
http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/5-19.htm
"Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses." (1 Tim. 5:19, NLT)
But Jackson seems to say that the circumstances are yet another witness. Never heard it put that way before. But this just goes to show how their interpretation can make just about any verse mean whatever they want it to mean.
in the october 2007 awake!
page 11, the b0rg had the audacity to say this concerning child sexual abuse: "sadly, though, most of such [child abuse] crimes go unpunished by authorities today.
in australia, for example, it has been estimated that only 10 percent of offenders are prosecuted, and few are convicted.
Just another case of "por la boca muere el pez", their own mouth kills them. They can't help themselves. They just love to stick their proverbial foot in the bucket.
Well, let them reap the rewards of the governments looking into their dirty laundry and exposing it to the world to see. The WT is nothing but a bunch of charlatans accusing others of the sins they themselves are trying hard to keep under wraps--white washed graves, painted white in the outside but inside are full of skeletons and decay.
