Posts by jelly

85

AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

nic'

jelly

Well, that's not obvious to small people like me. Care to elaborate without calling me stupid? You know, I wasted some two or three sentences to elaborate my point.

Have I once called you stupid? I took exception to you and Comf impling I was blood thirsty. I intentionally brought up Harry Truman to show that some times people are forced to do what they hate because the situation demands it.

Why they needed a large network of support:

[1] Faked papers
[2] Money to live
[3] Money for flight training

This is not an exhaustive list; I could search CNN for articles detailing why the commentators (many former intelligence experts) feel that they had a large network, but why should I. If you are curious do it for your self.

The situation is much different yes, but is the enemy? Japan at that time basically had a cult of Emperor worship, they were as warlike and homicidal as any county in the world then or now. I suggest you read ‘the rape of Nanking’. What is Japan like now?

Is it going to be difficult to find Bin Laden? Yes. It will not however be difficult to find the countries that support him, with his support removed he will be ineffective.

Jelly

P.S. To me attempting solutions that have proven to be ineffective is the same as appeasement.

85

AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

nic'

jelly

"[5] You have not responded to my assertion that to allow atrocities to occur and not do ever thing in you power to stop them, while hiding under the guise of pacifism, is cowardice, dishonest, immature, and ignorant."
I think that is arrogant. To assume that pacifism is "cowardice, dishonest, immature, and ignorant" is just throwing meaningless insults at someone who has had the temerity to disagree with you, which is, as you so nicely put it "immature, and ignorant". If you can construct a sentence without stooping to that level it might be worth replying to.

Were my words too harsh? Maybe. I will stick by dishonest and immature however. To do nothing, or to do something that has proven not to work is morally bankrupt. It will result in more Americans being murdered and make the world worse off. It is a weakness.

However I want to thank you for responding to my arguments. Even when you took exception to [5] it was done in a way conducive to communication.

I really don’t think my thinking is black and white. I stand by my assertion/argument that limited strikes are ineffective. Once again however I find myself defending what I never said. Who said anything about a land war? At this moment there is already a civil war in Afghanistan lets just support him. Any way you can cripple a countries ability to govern with bombs. You can destroy the power grid, transportation and communication hub and bring the country to a stand still. When the rebuild it destroy it again. Also the American military often finds itself restrained when on missions, you can’t bomb here, etc, etc. We could, literally level their military bases and destroy a large part of their army and equipment if these limitations were lifted.

Once again I believe a precedent must be set.

Jelly

15

am i normal?

by airwlk149 in

ok, so i am 17 almost 18. i used to have a boyfriend.

we were gonna get married this coming december, but stuff happened and we aren't now.

i had sex with him before marriage, and the bible firmly states to deaden your body memebers, which apparently we did not.

jelly

Honey your normal. Being confused about sex and life in general at 17 is as much a part of the age as acne. I can't really address any of you specfic problems, as I am completly unqualified, but I do want you to know that I am thinking of you. I have not prayed in years but tonight I will say one for you.

Jelly

85

AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

nic'

jelly

Fodeja,

Bin Laden is not going to stop, he has made no demands it does not want anything from America he only wants to destroy it. More Americans are going to die unless we eliminate his threat.

Its interesting, in another thread people brought up the dropping of the atomic bomb, do you know how many millions of lives (American and Japanese) that saved? Point being some times it takes a large scale act to bring about a better world, Harry Truman showed his strength of character and manhood by dropping that bomb. You should maybe pick up his biography, the thought of dropping that bomb weighed heavily on him but he knew he had to do it so he did. I understand on a small scale of what Harry Truman felt, I do not enjoy seeing people getting killed (If you and Comf cant understand that it shows you both to be small people) but I do believe a massive retaliation is necessary. Its also interesting how I point out historical events to support my argument, you only provide what you believe will happen, no precedent and no evidence provided. It seems like your whole post is one of fear, ‘we shouldn’t attack them or they will bomb us again’. I have no respect for that mentality; once again I state it is morally bankrupt. Your appeasement will just result in more innocent Americans getting killed, for my evidence I give you WWII. Limited attacks will not work, for my evidence I give you the last decade.

‘Some terrorists move to Germany…..’

Once again you manage to show how you completely misunderstand the situation. We would not have to bomb Germany they would do everything they can to get the terrorist themselves. Do you really see no difference in countries like Germany or Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan?

Also terrorist need a base to operate from, you assertion that these people did not have a large support network shows you will only believe what supports your preconceived ideas, even if it is obviously wrong.

If mike is not quoting me he should not put my words in quotes.

Jelly

P.S. At least Comf addressed my arguments. And by the way I have been very clear I am against the use of NBC weapons. Both you and Comf brought up and attacked issues that I never raised. You don’t have to turn a country into a ‘glass parking lot’ to remove its ability to Govern.

85

AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

nic'

jelly

Comf,

Agreed on [1] and [2].

[3] Limited strikes have been repeatedly attempted against this man to no effect. History speaks you refuse to listen. Limited strikes have worked against other groups and nations, not him.

[4] Your argument is pointless. If you cant see the difference in scale between this and other terrorist attacks then any attempt to reason with you is pointless. This attack has been repeatedly called unprecedented, not only by the media but also by the representatives of many different countries. If we do not make acts like this prohibitively expensive for countries that export terrorism then we are doomed to live with it for our entire lives.

[5] I am not emotionally ranting, I make the distinction between not only the separate Arab countries, many of which are completely shocked and likewise outraged by what happened, but I am also quick to remind people that Arabs living here are just as ‘American’ as you are me and should not be harassed.

When did I say there was no need for an investigation? Where did I mention that there was no need for evidence? Instant gratification?! Where have I placed a timeline outlining that the precedent should take place before its proper time. Honestly we may not be able to find Bin Laden but I assure you with the aid of a map we can find the countries that have given him safe haven. And I have seen nothing written by you are anyone else that makes me feel we should not eliminate those countries abilities to govern themselves.

Respond to my arguments not you own prejudice.

Jelly

21

Brits: 90% Say Go In With Yanks.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i thought you folk in the states might like to know how things stand this side of the pond.. sky news interactive showed that 90% of those polled thought that the uk should join with the us military in attacks on countries harbouring terrorists.. the the entrance to the us embassy in london is stacked high with flowers and tributes, the fdr statue in particular has also been similarly honoured.. flags all around the country are at half-mast.. the queen ordered that the daily changing of the guard ceremony at buckingham palace should feature the usa national anthem, this has never happened before at such a nationalistic event.. the famous last night of the proms at the albert hall and hyde park has been restructured to honour the american dead.. it is know that several hundred brits were in the trade centre at the time of the attack.. i just wanted you people to know that your country is by no means on its own in this crisis.

((((((big british hugs))))))).

englishman.

jelly

Thanks Englishman.

America and Britain, two countries.. one people.

Jelly

17

React, Retaliate, and Respond Forcefully

by Bendrr in

jw
friends

for far too many years we americans have paid our taxes and gone about our peaceful lives believing we lived in the best and safest country in the world.. september 11, 2001 claimed the title of the day that will live in infamy.

the attack on pearl harbor must now relinquish that title, as tuesday's attack was undeniably worse than that military attack on a naval base.

millions of people watched in horror as the second plane crashed into the world trade center tower on live television and thousands of innocent civilians-americans-died before a worldwide audience.. terrorist hijackers, some receiving their pilot training in america.

jelly

Well I have been accused of being a terrorist for my thoughts on this matter so I can safely say I am not taking the ‘soft stance’. However the use of NBC (nuke, bio, chem) weapons will cross the line in my opinion. I think we need to eliminate the Taliban’s ability to govern their country and that can be accomplished with conventional weapons if they are delivered without restrictions.

Jelly

21

WT HAS TO GIVE FINAL WITNESS WHEN END COMES

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

wt has to give final witness when end comes.

(a heavy message of doom from jehavhs organization).

*** re 233-4 32 god's anger brought to a finish ***.

jelly

Noidea,

You’re beautiful and I want to marry you. Let’s have 15 kids together.

Jelly

85

AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

nic'

jelly

Just bringing this back to the top because I think Mike and Fedeja need to respond to my questions:

Another couple of points to remember, Bin Laden has made no demands he is attacking America because he feels we are evil, and Bin Laden could not have completed these acts with out the support of some nations. Appeasement will not work; it will just create the situation where these attacks will be continued. This is why I feel that appeasement is the morally reprehensible path to take and will create a situation where attacks like this just continue and will kill more people and disrupt more lives than solving the problem now. FOR A HISTORICAL PRECIDENT JUST THINK OF HITLER AND WWII. I stand by my statements because I feel America and every nation has the right to defend themselves and Bush’s first priority, as president is to protect the American people, whatever the cost.

MIKE, please don’t change my stuff and then quote it. If you change my words its no longer a quote. If you want to quote me please keep it in the original form.

Thank God Harry Truman did not think like you people, if he did we would probably still be fighting the Japanese. One last thing I will respond to any of your arguments and I am eagerly awaiting your reply.

[1] You responded to none of my examples showing that sometimes war is necessary (WWII, etc)
[2] You have not acknowledged or responded to my argument that war can be a solution (Japan, Germany, Kuwait)
[3] You have not responded to my argument that ‘limited strikes’ are ineffective.
***** Please note two and three: Large-scale conflicts can resolve issues, limited strikes cannot.
[4] That a precedent must be set or we must be willing to live with atrocities like 9-11 our entire lives
[5] You have not responded to my assertion that to allow atrocities to occur and not do ever thing in you power to stop them, while hiding under the guise of pacifism, is cowardice, dishonest, immature, and ignorant.

Jelly

68

NATO INVOKES ARTICLE V - Serious

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when nato invokes article v, it is more than just one member asking for support from the other member states, but article v invocation means all member states view the attack as an attack on them all.

in other words, nato aliance is at war with those responsible, and will support the us lead, which will now hold not only the terrorists responsible, but hold those nations that host them as equally responsible.. "brussels, belgium (cnn) -- nato has unanimously declared the hijack attacks on the u.s. to be an assault against all member states.".

"it is the first time in 52 years that the alliance has invoked article v -- the nato self-defence charter that says if one member state is under attack all other member nations would defend it.".

jelly

Kent it’s late here so I will be brief.

It was only four planes not eight. The fourth plane that crashed in the middle of a field was not shot down. The passengers were using cell phones to call family members off the plane. This led to the passengers learning about the other two planes striking the WTC. When the passengers learned of this they struggled with the hijackers for control and it appears the plane crashed.

The military would have shot down any planes that were out of communication and flying towards NY or DC, that’s why the sky was full of fighter jets. There is no cover up here because the military was up front with its actions and most people realize that shooting down the jets is better than letting them crash into buildings. In this case they did not have to.

Bin Ladden was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians. It was the Gulf war that turned him against the US.

Will the Americans target civilians? Highly unlikely. What may happen and I believe should happen is that the bombing campaign will be one with many of the traditional rules of engagement lifted. The USAF wouldn’t bomb a housing area because it accomplishes nothing. I could see them however blowing up power plants that happen to be in residential neighborhoods leading to civilian deaths. I think America should use everything but NBC (Nuclear Biological and Chemical) in this one.

It was American bombs that helped eventually solve the Serbian crises.