Wonderment

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Posts by Wonderment

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  115

  Frederick Franz, "Bible Scholar"

  by Quendi in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as some of you know by now, i spent sunday, 7 august, renewing ties with a dear friend.

  we're both disfellowshipped, the difference between us being he is seeking reinstatement and i am not.

  we got into some very spirited discussions on different bible topics and one of them was the value of the new world translation itself.

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  Wonderment

  A detailed analysis of NWT Committee translation credentials:

  http://www.scribd.com/doc/48234022/Does-the-New-World-Translation-Committee-Know-Any-Greek
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  11

  Is the New Testament Just a Pagan Corruption of the Old Testament?

  by Diest in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i find myself asking that question more and more of late.. my first reason is the claim of a virgin birth.

  all of the jewish sources i read say that isaiah 7:14 does not talk about a virgin birth, but rather a birth to a young maiden.

  it was only the greek septuagint that shifted this belief to a virgin birth that is similar to their greek myths.. .

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  Wonderment

  Diest:

  Perhaps, there is no need to take it that far.

  As you noted, the Hebrew text has "maiden" (ha-'almah') and the Septuagint has "virgin" (parthe'nos), but that could be explained either by inspiration or historical fulfillment. Matthew used the Septuagint word in connection with the virgin Mary.

  As to the Old Testament not teaching the Trinity and the suggestion that the New Testament does is questionable. It is generally accepted that the OT does not teach a "Trinity," and the NT does not as much teach it as it is "read" by people of a later era that assimilated the doctrine. Really, there is not one text in the NT that explicitly says anything remotely what the trinitarian supporters claim.
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  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

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  Wonderment

  bob1999: The Holy Spirit is called God in Act 5:3-4.

  And so is Satan in 2 Cor 4:4. Actually, in Acts 5:4 the holy spirit is indirectly referred to as "God." In 2 Cor 4:4, Satan is directly referred to as "the G[g]od of this world." If we were to use your argument, does 2 Cor 4:4 mean that Satan is the "God" of the universe?
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  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

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  Wonderment

  The Trinity is very popular and has lots of support from academia. However, I have not being able to find in the Bible. Most of the scriptures used in support of the Trinity deal with only two individuals, not three. And those purported to support the Trinity really don't prove anything remotely that under close observation.

  The JWs have scripturally many things wrong, but I think they are right on rejecting the Trinity.
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  38

  I could really use some advice :(

  by FifthOfNovember in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  okay, here's some background information.. my girlfriend is in a program at a college about 30 minutes away.

  she can only come home on the weekends and i usually go over once a week to visit.

  there is a guy there that she hangs out with quite a bit, she's mentioned how he is really nice and funny.

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  Wonderment

  We gave you some advice based on the info we received from you.

  After seeing your update, I still feel proceeding with caution would be best. Bringing the kissing a friend question and saying she has a small crush with him is not positive by any means. At the least, it may be a sign of inmaturity.

  You said: "Honestly, things are better than ever." I doubt it. Things do not improve dramatically with just one conversation. Things might be better from now on, but please don't be gullible into thinking everything is fixed. Time will tell whether she comes up with another disappointing story. We all have faults, and we should allow for some of hers being manifested somehow.

  However, she did send out some unpleasant signals, and caution is still advised. In any case, keep us posted. I wish you the best and your happiness.
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  12

  None of you missed me !

  by wobble in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been off line for a few days, my old steam -driven pc went kapput!!!!.

  so i have had to go and buy one of those new-fangled lap-top things.. i can now post my silly comments again tee hee.. good to see you are all still here, and still fighting, well,not really, the board seems to have gone a bit quiet and boring lately,no spats and insults, or can you direect me to a thread or two i may have missed that are worthy of the title "a good punchup" ?

  ?.

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  Wonderment

  There are many posters all over the world, so it is not a bad thing when most of us could be gone for weeks and not being noticed. Of course, there are exceptions... godrulz is out of here, and he was extremely active while here. Who could really keep up with him?

  The fact of the matter is that when we have lots of people participating in a forum, most will remember the odd ones, or the ones that stand out for their depth in thinking or communicative abilities. And most of us may not be that, perhaps, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

  Whatever your contribution here, it is appreciated. God bless you!
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  38

  I could really use some advice :(

  by FifthOfNovember in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  okay, here's some background information.. my girlfriend is in a program at a college about 30 minutes away.

  she can only come home on the weekends and i usually go over once a week to visit.

  there is a guy there that she hangs out with quite a bit, she's mentioned how he is really nice and funny.

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  Wonderment

  I am afraid you already lost her. It seems she wants to have her cake and eat it too. I get the impression she likes both of you, and wants to play on both sides, or she is on her way to dump you eventually. She spends more time with him than with you, and that is not good. She finds the other guy funny, and that's usually a sign that she likes that aspect of him a lot.

  To ask you if she can kiss him is tantamount to saying that she wants both of you. She wants to know how really jealous you are, so that she can manage to keep you in her relationship until she decides what to do. My advice would be just as some others here have said. Move on!

  If you move on, she may realize then that her love for you is strong enough to keep a one-to-one relationship with you alone. But from experience, I can tell you she is not a keeper. Keep an eye to see how she manages phone calls in your presence, and if she is anxiously expecting a call. If you see any tendency there. Move on fast. You lost her heart!

  I know this advice is painful to follow, but in the long run, it may be your best bet. I hope that helps.
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  22

  My brand new Greek Bible!

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just received my brand new greek bible:.

  = the holy scriptures - new world translation.

  why bother?

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  Wonderment

  TD: Very good observation of yours. No one will argue that Modern Greek and Koine Greek are two thousand years apart with great differences. However, as you noted, many modern Greek folks do have familiarity with ancient texts. And Greek has changed less than English has through the centuries. An educated Greek can follow quite a bit of Koine Greek even without formal training.

  See Paul L. Kaufman's comment on this on page one for those who missed it. Here's another one from Wikipedia: "Ancient Greek texts, especially from Biblical Koine onwards, are thus relatively easy to understand for educated modern speakers."

  And as Earnest indicated, it is not unusual for the WT Society (who have access to multiple resources) have someone specializing in both Koine and Modern Greek available to assist them in the translation process. Earnest said: "On the other hand, I do know of a brother in Greece who is equally at home in both ancient and modern Greek and who has been assisting the Watchtower Society in translation for the last 30 years so..."

  This is not surprising because to produce the NWT Greek edition required perhaps a bit more than other versions into other languages. The WT took seven (7) years to produce their modern Greek version.
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  22

  My brand new Greek Bible!

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just received my brand new greek bible:.

  = the holy scriptures - new world translation.

  why bother?

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  Wonderment

  TD asked: Why is the Greek NWT a nicer binding than the English? Why does it have two ribbon markers when the English only has one? Inquiring minds want to know....

  TD, the edition I obtained is the Deluxe one. It was printed in New York. It has only one ribbon. I would like to get the Rbi8-G Reference edition. If anyone has one, please let me know. I am willing to buy it from you. The WT system they have in place for ordering literature sucks more than rotten eggs.
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  22

  My brand new Greek Bible!

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just received my brand new greek bible:.

  = the holy scriptures - new world translation.

  why bother?

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  Wonderment

  shepherd:

  "Over the centuries, the Greek language has exhibited a remarkable continuity and has evidenced far fewer variations than the English language has since the time of Chaucer (c. 1340-1400). [...] [I]t is probably no overstatement to observe that the student who can read either Xenophon's Anabasis or Plato's Apology will have little difficulty reading the New Testament or even a modern Greek newspaper (except for some different vocabulary)." (An Introductory Grammar of New Testament Greek, by Paul L. Kaufmam, Ph.D)

  Interestingly, two scholars who disliked the Jehovah's Witnesses with passion, i.e. Julius Mantey and Walter Martin, both Baptists, had a conversation where Walter Martin, the so called "cult expert" was sort of mocking the NWT translators lack of Greek knowledge (their view of things), when Julius Mantey asked him about one of the translators Greek background (George Gangas).

  J. Mantey asked Martin: "He was born in Greece, wasn't he?" Martin then answered: "Yes, he read modern Greek, and I met him when I visited the Watchtower." Of course, Martin went on to say that this Greek speaker did not know what "the subject" of the last clause of John 1:1c was.

  That assertion about Gangas not knowing "the subject" is questionable in itself. But my point is that even Mantey who hated the JWs, acknowledge by his question that a NWT translator having a Greek background could make a difference in the translation process.