Posts by Wonderment

62

Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

by Johnny Brown in

"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

Wonderment

smiddy:

"And in John 1:1 in that same publication [KIT] , the word for word translation reads ,

‘In the beginning the word was and the word was with God and the word was God.’

It does not say the word was a God , it plainly states the word was God."

Smiddy, first of all, in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation, the publication you refer to, John 1:1c does not say in the interlinear English gloss: "The word was God." This is what it says: "and god was the Word." So, it is wrong to start an assumption by quoting incorrectly.

Secondly, the reason KIT has a small initial letter for "god" is due to language protocols in Greek and English. Dr. Machen explains in New Testament Greek for Beginners the following:

"There is no indefintite article in Greek, and so adelphós means either brother or a brother (usually the latter)." Greek has, however, a definite article, and where the Greek article does not appear, the definite article should not be inserted in English translation. Thus, adelphós does not mean the brother. In the plural, English, like Greek, has no indefinite article. Ánthropoi, therefore, means simply men. But it does not mean the men."

Also, Hewett in New Testament Greek wrote: "Since Greek has no indefinite rticle, the English translation of a Greek word that does no have an article [as in Jn 1:c] may be preceded by the indefinite article ‘a’ or ‘an.’ "

This means that the KIT translators did the right thing by observing a difference in writing between the articular "God" in John 1:1b, and the unarthrous "god" in John 1:1c. Hence, John 1:1c does not ‘plainly’ say that the Word was God. What it does say is: the Word was god [i.e. in a qualitative sense]," or, "the Word was a god [indefinite]." Both of these two readings are acceptable, but as Professor Machen noted, "usually the latter" with an indefinite nuance is the common way of expressing the unarthrous Greek nouns in our language.

62

Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

by Johnny Brown in

"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

Wonderment

jhine: "...there is no doubt that the idea of a Trinity was in the VERY early church with the claim that it was passed down from the Apostles themselves."

Theophilus of Antioch (no me neither ) circa 180AD:

‘In like manner also the three days which were befoer the luminaries , are types of the Trinity, of God HIs Word and HIs Wisdom.’

and Tertullian 160-215:

‘We define that there are Two , the Father and the Son and three with the Holy Spirit , and this number is made by the pattern of salvation .... which brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three , Father Son and Holy Spirit’

These at least show that the Watchtower statements about the Trinity and when and how it came about are wrong ."

Theophilus in this quote makes no mention of the holy spirit. How could this be any indication that his particular "trinity" came from the apostles?

Tertulian is first attributed with coining the term "trinity," and early on in the 3rd century mentioned a triad of God Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But how would this be any proof that Tertulian based his belief on biblical teaching?

Tertulian said this also: "There was a time when there was no Son and no sin, when God was neither Father nor Judge." (The Catholic Encyclopedia) The Son having ‘a beginning’ is contrary to later trinitarian doctrine.

Also, the New Catholic Encyclopedia says of Tertulian's theology: "In not a few areas of theology, Tertullian’s views are, of course, completely unacceptable. Thus, for example, his teaching on the Trinity reveals a subordination of Son to Father that in the later crass form of Arianism the Church rejected as heretical."

Tertulian used a lot of unscriptural terminology, and one could say perhaps that a source of many of his theological ideas came from Greek apologies which he learned from, and not Scripture.

In conclusion, the word "trinity" appears nowhere in Scripture, and the concept is not found there either. It is only when one lets the influence of modern trinitarian theology that one is able to find earlier isolated scriptural strands made to fit the convoluted trinitarian dogma of heathen nations.

62

Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

by Johnny Brown in

"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

Wonderment

jhine: "Also Ignatius of Antioch who died in 115 AD had no doubt about the Divinity of Christ . I understand that this stuff is very boring and of little consequence to many but there is no doubt that the idea of a Trinity was in the VERY early church with the claim that it was passed down from the Apostles themselves."

The evidence is incomplete to claim "there is no doubt that the idea of a Trinity was in the VERY early church."

What the early record shows is that the early Church Fathers manifested a confusion about the person of God and Christ. Their written comments are conflictive and show a deviation from the message of the Christian Scriptures. The holy spirit was not officially a "person" until the 4th century. There can't be a "trinity" withou the third person.

62

Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

by Johnny Brown in

"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

Wonderment

Island Man: I am inclined to view your explanation of Romans 10:13 as insightful and correct. Very good!

62

Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

by Johnny Brown in

"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

Wonderment

Cofty: "The trinity is exactly like the Watchtower's ‘overlapping generation’ doctrine. It makes no sense, everybody knows it makes no sense and nobody can explain it without parroting the official formula."

I like your analogy!

13

RNWT Bible Needs to be Revised Again!

by The Searcher in

i'll restrain myself from commenting on jw.org's perversion of this scripture - i'll leave that to others.. however, for lurkers and active witnesses here, why not ask one of your local glorious ones to explain how these non-scriptural words found their way into the silver sword, but don't appear in the original greek, or even in the kingdom interlinear.. (2 corinthians 9:13) "through the proof that this relief ministry gives, they glorify god because you are submissive to the good news about the christ, as you publicly declared, and because you are generous in your contribution to them and to all.".

https://www.blueletterbible.org/bible.cfm?b=2co&c=9&t=kjv#s=t_conc_1087013.

.

Wonderment

The FREE Dictionary defines confession so: 1. The act or process of confessing, as in telling one's life story as a series of failings or tribulations. 2. Something confessed, especially a disclosure of one's sins to a priest for absolution. 3. Confession In some Christian churches, the sacrament of Penance. 4. A statement made acknowledging guilt of an offense. 5. An avowal of belief in the doctrines of a particular faith; a creed. 6. A church or group of worshipers adhering to a specific creed. The biblical Greek term homología, can mean "a free act of confession of the gospel or a liturgical form of confession in the community. As a response in 2 Cor. 9:13 it implies acceptance, commitment, and obedience. It is thus an occasion for thanksgiving and for praise of God... At issue here is an act of sharing, so that the use is very broad." (Theological Dictionary of the NT, Bromiley, p. 689) However, homología according to Frederick W. Danker can also mean: "Act of making a public declaration relating to belief/conviction." (The Concise Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) "...Homologe ō comes also to mean the act of publicly acknowledging someone or something." (Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary, pp. 5,6) Alexander Souter's Compact Greek-English Lexicon of the NT: "homologéo... (2). I confess; (3) I publicly declare."

13

Shipping items to the Philippines. Does anyone have experience shipping to other countries?

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

i live in the usa and want to ship my game consoles (xbox, playstation, wi, ect), laptop, and other items to my wife's family in the philippines.

i've used a company locally that ships there at a fix price of $90 per box.

so whatever i fit in the box will ship at that rate regardless of weight.

Wonderment

Ship via USPS using Registered Mail. Multiple filipinos have mentioned that's the way to go when shipping to the Philippines.

Just about everything else is subject to being opened up, and valuable articles are kept (i.e. "stolen") by local postal workers there. Second choice is Express Mail, but Registered Mail is the most secure shipping method. The postal system there is horrible. One filipino woman sent a package to United States, and two months later it was still in the samemailing office she dropped it off. We found out because I asked the sender to inquire for the missing package, and they admitted it was still to being processed. A month later, I received the package.

I hope this helps.

44

Hebrews 10:25

by millie210 in

i was asked recently by a still in friend (it was meant sincerely not sarcastically).

"but what do you do with that scripture so far as not attending meetings?".

i typed hebrews 10:25 in to the search bar but didnt get much.. .

Wonderment

Many here have posted some excellent points, including one by Oubliette which offered good comments. However, I fail to see how the NWT (Revised and earlier editions) butchers this verse, as implied by some comments. Here is an interlinear reading by McReynolds:

"Not leaving behind the bringing together of ourselves, just as custom in some, but encouraging, and to such more as much as you see nearing the day." (Paul R. McReynolds Interlinear)

The right margin has the reading from the NRSV as so: "Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

Jerusalem Bible: "Do not stay away from the meetings of the community, as some do..."

Good News Translation: "Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing..."

New English Bible: "Not staying away from our meetings, as some do..."

This is a sample of various versions which communicate nearly the same thing, along with the NWT.

One version which goes beyond the literal reading by adding a bit of interpretation is this reading from The Living Bible: "Let us not neglect our church meetings, as some people do..."

As some of you have rightly pointed out, it is the common interpretation among JWs which is wrong, along the line of The Living Bible, not the translation itself of the NWT. It appears that the Revised NWT reading of Heb 10.25 is another effort to simplify the message, but I don't see it as a genuine deviation of the Greek text.

15

Sexually repressed and frustrated Jws....

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

i wonder how many jws are sexually frustrated due to the repressive views of the org?.

im sure that there are millions of messed up witnesses who have been severely damaged due to the teachings and guilt that the org places on all members.. now, i'm not encouraging a reckless lifestyle, but i'm sure so many more problems are experienced by witnesses just because of the suppressed and guilt laden attitudes the org has perpetuated!

they can even be open in their marriages!.

Wonderment

Sexual frustration? Me? Heck yes!

Believe it or not, I was a sexual male virgin when I married at 20 years of age (Yes, because fear of Watchtower org, more than to God). To top it off, I felt, with my little experience gained in marriage, I found my wife was little or not sexually responsive enough to touch. I was so frustrated, I thought either that I sucked in the bed department, or that Jehovah was not fair in the administration of sexual hormones so that I, as a male, had plenty of sexual desire and feeling, but had an insensitive wife in sex. I suffered a lot.

Then I abandoned the WT organization, and one of the first things I did after divorce, was try sex with a different partner. Wow! What a difference! This woman was so sensitive to everything I tried with her that many a times, she had me beat. I could not believe this!

I asked myself, is this just a coincidence, or what? So I had to try again, and guess what, I was in bliss sexually speaking with my third partner. Boy, I tried just about everything "worldly" couples did in the bedroom, and it was sex like in the movies...sweaty, raw, capable of repetition, etc., ... so different to my JW wife who was perhaps "frigid" to a point. WT religion had to do with this for sure. Let me explain briefly:

My first partner (a JW) was not sensitive per se, but not totally frigid. She had no response to manual touch in her breasts (I have soft hands and feel I have a good technique.). Touching her all over her body didn't do much to arouse her. Penetration didn't help much either (Hey guys, I am normal). The only time I noticed a sexual response from her was by oral sex, which she liked, but everytime she came close to a come, she pulled my head away, and quoted "the Watchtower" as authority for the "guilt" of pleasure she was getting from it. She would not let me finish her off. She was the only woman that I could not please fully, in part because she would not let me all the way, coupled with the fact, she obviously had low hormones, or some other physical problem.

I put up with her for nearly two decades with this suffering. Since then, I have "sinned" by having sexual experiences with a good number of women. Sex with all the other women was remunerating, and fun, and produced visible results that brought back my manhood to a glorified state of content.

If only I had some sex before marriage, I would not have stuck with my first cold sexual partner for so long. The WT Society is guilty for wrecking a lot of marriages. I speak from experience.

I hope my experience helps someone out there. May God bless ya all!

30

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

Wonderment

Oubliette: "PS: I hate this fucking religion. The rules, policies, practices and procedures have stolen my children from me. If I ever could find a way to get my hands on the people responsible for this, I would be sure to make them confront what they are and what they have done before I ended their pathetic lives."

I may not got as far as you stated, but my feelings are similar to yours. In their goal to control every facet of the organization JWs worship, WT leaders will not stop at anything from accomplishing their goals of full-control = "unity at all costs," as one WT official stated in the 1950s during a court case.

I for one have suffered so much for the last 24 years since I disassociated from the WT org. I have a big family which for the most part are absent in my life, and I feel the pangs of loneliness quite often. The hurt has been so great that I have found it difficult to be social with others. What the Society's practices do to these outcasts may not be direct physical murder, but they come very close to expunge the living spirit out of every moving ex-JW, just to save face before men.

Their control is extremely dangerous, and I wish governments would take a more active role in preventing religious groups from exercising so much damage. Like others noted here, the WT should know that the Bible does not support such drastic un-Christian practices. I believe they know it does not, but for the sake of the organization, they still do it. That's evil!