vienne: I did not suggest that Franz couldn't translate; I suggested his English language word choices were not best grammar.
I agree with you.
Wonderment
JoinedPosts by Wonderment
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Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek
by Wild_Thing inhas anyone been able to verify that fred franz received the minimal training in ancient greek that he claimed gave him the expertise to translate the bible?
you would think that would be fairly easy to verify or disprove in this day and age.
what college did he attend?
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Wonderment
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Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek
by Wild_Thing inhas anyone been able to verify that fred franz received the minimal training in ancient greek that he claimed gave him the expertise to translate the bible?
you would think that would be fairly easy to verify or disprove in this day and age.
what college did he attend?
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Wonderment
vienne: Examples of poor grammar? Use of reflexive pronouns, especially in the OT. ie: He himself.
This example is an indicator that the translator was translating from the Hebrew text (not from an English version), because the Hebrew in some cases brings out emphasis by doubling on pronouns.
Leviticus 5:2,3 for instance, has the literal reading: "from him" "and he" (pronominal suffix & personal pronoun) back to back, which the NWT renders as "he himself" The NWT translation is not alone doing so.
The NWT 2013 has done away with many of those Hebraisms compared to pre-2013 NWT. Another example of Hebrew emphasis is clearly seen at Ezequiel 18:4, particularly in the early versions.
There is a group of people who like those distinctions brought out in their Bibles. Others do not. That's what's good about the English language which has so many bible versions opposed to other languages that don't have as many choices to bicker about.
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Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek
by Wild_Thing inhas anyone been able to verify that fred franz received the minimal training in ancient greek that he claimed gave him the expertise to translate the bible?
you would think that would be fairly easy to verify or disprove in this day and age.
what college did he attend?
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Wonderment
I meant Genesis 2.4 (not 1.4) as the verse brought up in Court in the Walsh case.
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Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek
by Wild_Thing inhas anyone been able to verify that fred franz received the minimal training in ancient greek that he claimed gave him the expertise to translate the bible?
you would think that would be fairly easy to verify or disprove in this day and age.
what college did he attend?
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Wonderment
I once called Raymond Franz to ask him a couple of questions. I regret that at the time of the call I dumped on him my suspicion that he was a bittered and negative apostate who just had to find a way to justify writing his two books.
Ray kept his composure, but I could tell he was hurt by my insinuations, his tone of voice changed and he paused for a moment. When he spoke again, he sounded like he was crying inside. Not once, did he lash back at me.
That was some 25 years ago. Looking back, I was so sorry for unleashing my frustration at him. Since then, I realize I was wrong on so many counts. I had no right to judge him. Now that he is gone, I regret not calling him back to apologize for my indiscretion. More than ever!
Anyways, he told me in answer to one of my questions, that Fred Franz was the main translator of both the NWT and the Kingdom Interlinear. He was personally bothered by critics who presented a case out of proportions around Fred’s reluctance to attempt to translate Gen. 1.4 from English to Hebrew. Ray told me that Fred was not comfortable with the way the attorney was presenting his case against the WT Society, and chose not to engage in his ruse.
Anyways, the NWT/Kingdom Interlinear itself is proof that whoever worked on the translations had the intellectual capacity to deal with the translation difficulties. And in many places they did not follow standard translation choices.
One such example is the beginning clause of 1 John 5.19, which says in most versions: "We know that we are of God." (NASB) This clause, however, does not sound like a normal English statement a mother would use with her daughter, for instance. This is because the NASB translators rendered the Greek with English equivalents. They did not take into account how a modern English speaker would translate the Greek of John which reads literally: "We have known that out of the God we are." Most English versions read as the NASB does. A few read like so, "We know that we are children of God." This may be better, but is sort of a paraphrase, because the word "children" is not in the Greek text, though implied. But I think the best renderings come from the Twentieth Century Translation and the NWT.
TCT: "We realize that we come from God..."
NWT: We know we originate with God...
These two translations acknowledge the presence of the preposition "ek [out of]" which implies ‘action proceeding from a source,’ in this case, Christians proceeding from God (spiritually born from God, as children of God) as the source of all life and spirit.
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The perfect tool for Glock magazines
by Wonderment inthose of you who own glock pistols know that it takes a bit of know-how or work to open a glock magazine for cleaning, or for adding a magazine extension to increase round capacity.
the reason why glock chose this method of retaining is to prevent accidental release of the magazine springs and cartridges in case they are dropped.
the military and law enforcement agencies appreciate this system more than the average joe.
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Wonderment
Those of you who own Glock pistols know that it takes a bit of know-how or work to open a Glock magazine for cleaning, or for adding a magazine extension to increase round capacity. The reason why Glock chose this method of retaining is to prevent accidental release of the magazine springs and cartridges in case they are dropped. The military and law enforcement agencies appreciate this system more than the average Joe.
Some Glock owners in fact dread removing the bottom retainer, since the retainer is held by two tabs under spring pressure. Various tools are sold for this purpose, but common tools can be used, which can incidentally damage the plastic housing if not done right. Some brute methods can indeed destroy the tabs on the side.
The best solution I have found is a good multi-purpose tool made by Knippex of Germany which I have found to be superior to anything I have tried. It is a self-ratcheting wrench which can be used to apply the right amount of pressure without marring the plastic housing of the magazine. It really works good, albeit an expensive tool ($57 for the 7.25 inch at Chadstool Box below.) However, this tool can be used for many other things around the house or car, unlike the expensive tools sold exclusively for this, which don’t work as good as this tool. This tool is good for both .380 and all 9mm Glock magazines, and may work just as well on other brands.
https://chadstoolbox.com/86-plier-wrench/
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Simon, is it possible to add an "Underline" button to options?
by Wonderment insimon, is it possible to add an "underline" button to the available options?.
thanks again for this site!.
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Wonderment
Simon, is it possible to add an "Underline" button to the available options?
Thanks again for this site!
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Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?
by nicolaou infirstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.
it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.
i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.
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Wonderment
nicolau said: That being said, things seem to have have taken a turn around here. The first page of active topics is often dominated by political posts, Trump debates or arguments about immigration or Islamic extremism.
This may be one of those "cycles" poster dubstepped mentioned. In time, people will move one to another subject. But for now, this subject is everywhere. The President, the White House, the News Media, and opposing parties bring up the subject on a daily basis, it seems. So, it is unavoidable.
The hard part is finding a balance in all this. I tend to put myself in the place of both camps in order to understand them better. I find that people from both sides should be heard. I noticed one poster brought up a video were immigrants were ravishing European countries, creating all sorts of problems. That is definitely a problem over there. But the one who came up with the video obviously cherry picked the WORST side of immigrants. He never bothered to report cases where an immigrant have done something good for the locals. Nor did he report why immigrants were angry. Something similar is happening on our side.
On the other side, who can blame the Germans, French, English, Italians, Greeks, etc. for their feelings of fear from other cultures seeping in. Border safety is a must in every country, including ours. Even immigration growth has to be kept under control. If anyone party believes that unrestrained immigration is good for all of us, they are wrong. That said, one reason there are so many "illegal" immigrants is because most countries have made it difficult, expensive and time consuming to obtain legal status. Those who defend this situation believe in immigration by "merit," where they can cherry-pick their immigrants.
The News Media and the political establishments often tweak news to their benefit. We overwhelmingly get one side of the story over the other. So, in a way, it is good that people are expressing different views on this website, something they couldn’t do as JWs. I often marvel how various posters bring up details I never thought about until they did.
Overall, the world is a mess. No one can fix it, but God. In the meantime, our challenge is to keep a side of humanity even under threat. Otherwise, we could become like a piece of unresponsive cold, hard metal in the dumpster.
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Wonderment
Photo Source : Reuters/Stringer.
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Immigration: The Truth about the LIe - CRIME
by Wonderment inimmigration: the truth about the lie: crimecrime: do immigrants increase rates of violence?
there has been a lot of talk about how immigrants pose a threat to the safety of this country by increasing crime rates.
is there any truth to this, or is it "fake news.
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Wonderment
Immigration: The Truth about the Lie: CRIME
CRIME: Do immigrants increase rates of violence? There has been a lot of talk about how immigrants pose a threat to the safety of this country by increasing crime rates. Is there any truth to this, or is it "fake news."
Wikipedia: “In fact, most studies in the U.S. have found lower crime rates among immigrants than among non-immigrants, and that higher concentrations of immigrants are associated with lower crime rates.
FOX News (07/12/2017): “Fear of an illegal immigrant crime wave is sparked by the fear that they are overwhelmingly murderers, rapists, and thieves. In reality, illegal immigrants have lower incarceration rates and live in places with lower crimes rates than native-born Americans.... Looking at all incarcerated prisoners in state, federal, and local adult correctional facilities provides a more accurate picture of illegal immigrant criminality. Based on census data, the numbers show that illegal immigrants are about 44 percent less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans.”
NPR (05/02/2018): “The Trump administration regularly asserts that undocumented immigrants are predatory and threaten public safety…. Now, four academic studies (University of Wisconsin - 2 Studies; Cato Institute; U.K. journal Migration Letters) show that illegal immigration does not increase the prevalence of violent crime or drug and alcohol problems.... U.K. journal Migration Letters shows that youthful undocumented immigrants engage in less crime than do legal immigrants of U.S.-born peers.”
University of Pennsylvania: "For those who are skeptical that these findings are true, consider the case of El Paso, Texas a working class city of approximately 700,000 people that sits opposite the Rio Grande.... More than 80% of El Paso's residents are Hispanic and the vast majority of these individuals are of Mexican origin. A large population of El Paso's Hispanic population are immigrants. In fact, El Paso has one of the highest proportions of immigrants among U.S. cities. Many of these migrants are undocumented. If those who fear Mexican immigration are right, then El Paso should be a hotbed of violence. As it turns out, El Paso is one of the safest cities in the United States with a homicide rate of 2.4 per 100,000 residents.
New York Times (03/30/2018):
“The Trump administration’s first year of immigration policy has relied on claims that immigrants bring crime into America. President Trump’s latest target is sanctuary cities. ‘Every day, sanctuary cities release illegal immigrants, drug dealers, traffickers, gang members back into our communities,’ he said last week. ‘They’re safe havens for just some terrible people.’ As of 2017, according to Gallup polls, almost half of Americans agreed that immigrants make crime worse. But is it true that immigration drives crime? Many studies have shown that it does not.
“Immigrant populations in the United States have been growing fast for decades now. Crime in the same period, however, has moved in the opposite direction, with the national rate of violent crime today well below what it was in 1980.... The 10 places with the largest increases in immigrants all had lower levels of crime in 2016 than in 1980.”
What do you think? Are these sources reliable? Or, are they "fake news"?