Posts by Wonderment

18

Can I pick up a New World Translation from the JW London head office?

by Camperdown9 in

i'm an anglican and not a jehovahs witness.

what i dislike about lots of church congregations is their readiness to make unpleasant and unhelpful comments about other christian groups.

recently someone in a church tried to tell me a little about the views of jehovahs witnesses.

Wonderment

Camperdown9: "I'm an Anglican and not a Jehovahs Witness. What I dislike about lots of church congregations is their readiness to make unpleasant and unhelpful comments about other Christian groups."

I agree with you there.

However, asking most ex_JWs how they feel about the religion, will most likely get you a flood of the most disparaging criticisms one could ever come up with.

I too have a problem with the religion. I have been victimized for abandoning the JW religion. My family have deserted me. Nevertheless, I can still see some of the good things they do well. I venture to say that every group of believers do some things right and many things wrong. The JWs are no exception. A main problem with the JWs has to do with their shunning policies, and the control the leadership exerts over their followers. In that sense, the JWs are a dangerous religion.

About the NWT, there are all sorts of opinions about it, mostly bad. But I feel those people who put it down so harshly reflect their own religious bias as well. Someone here said of the JW Bble that, "Their New World Translation is just a copy of another translation that has been a altered to fit JW theology." The first part of this statement is simply not true. The burden is on the person to prove such allegation. On the second part of the statement, I agree that the NWT has been adapted to fit JW theology. What a lot of people fail to realize though, is that just about every Bible translation out there has been adapted to fit the theology of the translators, whoever they may be. This outcome is often not deliberate, but a consequence of their educational background.

I am glad to see someone open enough to query others about another faith. In the end, I advise anyone to be careful of whatever claims any religious group make of other faiths, and be willing to analyze different opinions on the matter before reaching a personal conclusion.

Good wishes!

46

Any weapons enthusiasts here?

by Wonderment in

i knew i had a couple of firearms around the house, and one in the car.

however, i didn't realize i had seven, yes, seven of them, when i proceeded to count them.

the reason for that is that i haven't gone to the shooting range in years.

Wonderment

Thanks talesin for the quick response!

46

Any weapons enthusiasts here?

by Wonderment in

i knew i had a couple of firearms around the house, and one in the car.

however, i didn't realize i had seven, yes, seven of them, when i proceeded to count them.

the reason for that is that i haven't gone to the shooting range in years.

Wonderment

talesin: "Pepper spray [in Canada] is illegal - but a small can of aerosol hairspray works just as well, and is considerably cheaper."

Where did you learn this? This is interesting! Does it really work like pepper sprays?

22

I no longer feel smart as a JW, I feel dumb...

by thedepressedsoul in

i don't want anyone to take this the wrong way but i use to at least feel smart as a jw.

when i went to thursday night meetings, i at least felt like i was a student, that i was learning how to speak publicly, i could prepare my own comments, i could answer points that i learned from the weekly bible reading.

i even feel like an "idiot" studying for the meetings.

Wonderment

George Carlin, the comedian, used to say that government leaders everywhere want their people smart enough so they can be productive and follow directions, but not so smart to a degree where they can easily perceive the overall state of corruption ever-present in their governments.

The same with the WT Society. They want their followers to be equally productive and follow directions at all costs, but they don't to want their followers smart enough where they can easily sense on their own the fragile doctrinal base supporting the WT Society. No deep study! No private studying without the faithful and discreet slave guiding them. Thus, the ‘dumbing down’ of their message as a result.

46

Any weapons enthusiasts here?

by Wonderment in

i knew i had a couple of firearms around the house, and one in the car.

however, i didn't realize i had seven, yes, seven of them, when i proceeded to count them.

the reason for that is that i haven't gone to the shooting range in years.

Wonderment

I knew I had a couple of firearms around the house, and one in the car. However, I didn't realize I had seven, yes, seven of them, when I proceeded to count them. The reason for that is that I haven't gone to the shooting range in years. Until recently, that is. I picked up the urge to shoot again.

Today, I sold four of those firearms to a local dealer: one Taurus 22 magnum revolver; one 32 short top breaker revolver; one 32 magnum revolver, and one HR 38 Special revolver. I decided to keep my Smith-Wesson 38 Special M-10 revolver, and a Taurus 357 revolver. Also, I recently bought a Glock G43 for carry on. I'm also thinking about getting a Glock G19.

So I wonder how many of you have firearms in your possession. If so, which? Do you like shooting practice? Any preferences?

62

Ladies: Circumcision or not?

by Wonderment in

the topic of circumcision has been brought up a few times recently.

then i wondered... .

how do women really view circumcision?

Wonderment

It is hard to understand why some people react so strongly against the practice, as unforgivable sin. Obviously these people were not Jewish.

62

Ladies: Circumcision or not?

by Wonderment in

the topic of circumcision has been brought up a few times recently.

then i wondered... .

how do women really view circumcision?

Wonderment

The topic of circumcision has been brought up a few times recently. Then I wondered...

How do women really view circumcision? Do the ladies here have any preferences?

7

Some observations...

by Wonderment in

theburstbubble: just as a translation is it as accurate as they say it is?

or have they played with some of the verses to suit the beliefs?

just curious... i don't know why but i find it quite sad if the nwt is so misleading to support their own beliefs.

Wonderment

Landy: Is there a particular reason you've started a new thread on this instead of using the existing one?

It was not my intention to do that, but I slipped. I noticed that - after the blooper. I even asked myself: How did I do that?

Good observation!

7

Some observations...

by Wonderment in

theburstbubble: just as a translation is it as accurate as they say it is?

or have they played with some of the verses to suit the beliefs?

just curious... i don't know why but i find it quite sad if the nwt is so misleading to support their own beliefs.

Wonderment

Mephis: I think when someone appeals to authority on a subject, it's perfectly valid to question the value of that authority.

You are right Mephis! It is valid to question the value of authority of those who defend certain Scriptural positions of the NWT. But how many posters here are willing to question those religious people who constantly attack the NWT as a monstruous creation, frequently not in the best language?

A few weeks ago, I read Dr. Trevor R. Allin's critique of the NWT on John 8.58. I immediately saw some problems in his argumentation where he, an authority in Linguistics (He has a Ph.D), was clearly misrepresenting the facts he was presenting to the religious world. Your statement came to mind: I think when someone appeals to authority on a subject, it's perfectly valid to question the value of that authority.

So I jotted down various issues I perceived were errors in his presentation. I presented them to this forum here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5360109848887296/how-credible-nwts-critiques-allin-john-8-58-2

Given that most participants in this place have been victims of the WT Society's shoddy practices (I include myself in this group), I didn't expect a "great" reception to my article. Sure enough, instead of getting anyone to question Allin's amazing dubious claims, I, of the two involved, was singled out as the one in error, by implication, of course. I don't think anyone directly said so, but various posters expressed that I had to be "retarded" or the like, for disagreeing with such authority. Yet, I wrote the article with the best intention and sincerity. I was hoping at least one person would see what I was seeing in this article by Allin. But that didn't happen.

Nonetheless, I greatly value the opinions of others, such as yours, and those of others who disagreed with me on the John 8.58 article. However, I have the conviction that if someone makes declarations that are clearly wrong or disputable, whether the source is the WT Society, or some other, we have the Christian freedom to express our views on the matter, as your principle stated. Most participants here have done so very well.

Best wishes!

7

Some observations...

by Wonderment in

theburstbubble: just as a translation is it as accurate as they say it is?

or have they played with some of the verses to suit the beliefs?

just curious... i don't know why but i find it quite sad if the nwt is so misleading to support their own beliefs.

Wonderment

Hadriel: I can say unequivocally that the NWT, grossly misrepresents the scriptures when the original text curiously doesn't fit the desired doctrine. Take 2 Corinthians 5:20. In this text the phrase "substituting for Christ" is added with regards to ambassadors. There is zero basis for this however it is postured in such a way as if to further bolster authority. Or at least that's how I see it. To me that's simply incorrigible.

2 Corinthians 5.20 is an interesting scripture to bring forth. It poses some difficulty to translate it correctly. I find that most translators have to add or take away some words within the text to have smooth English. But one issue where translators depart in the text is in the translation of the Greek preposition "hyper" which appears twice. As is often the case, prepositions can have many meanings, so interpretation plays a major role in the translation process.

"Hyper" generally means "over" (opposite of hypo, "under") but has been translated variously: for; about; in; above; beyond; for the sake of; more than; on behalf; concerning; for sake; on behalf of; over, than; to, etc.

In compounds with verbs, nouns, or adverbs it adds the ideas of:

(1) over or beyond, spatially; (2) for someone or something; or (3) beyond (normal) limits.

Some believe that in 2 Cor. 5.20, the idea of "substitution" is brought out by the fact that the preposition used here, is also used 6 other times in the chapter. See 2 Cor. 5.15 & 21, for example.

Paul, is, within this context, defending his apostleship, his authority as God's representative. Which is why, he uses "hyper" as the first word for emphasis in the text, for what Paul has to say in his defense. Paul was conveying that he was a messenger of God, an ambassador. In the absence of Christ, he was serving in his place (as a "substitute") to appeal to them as if God himself was making appeal to them through him: "As God's ambassadors, we beg: Become reconciled to Christ." Hence, Paul had the "authority" to be the apostle of God and Christ, which church infiltrators questioned.

Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics says under "Hyper": "It is our conviction that ["hyper"] is naturally suited to the meaning of substitution and is in fact used in several passages dealing with the nature of Christ's atonement." (p. 383)

Kenneth S. Wuest, in his literal translation, makes an effort to bring out the Greek meaning of what Paul was saying:

"Therefore, on behalf of Christ and in His place we are acting as ambassadors, as though God were saying, I beg of you, please, through us as His intermediate agents. We beg you in Christ's stead, Be reconciled at once to God " (The New Testament - An Expanded Translation)

The idea of "substitution" in the text within Paul's context, is not so absurd after all. The problem is that some religious groups, like the JWs and the Catholics, use Scripture to enforce their authority on their followers beyond what the Bible demands of Christians.

Because of this, I prefer this reading from the Simple English Bible:

"We are representing Christ. It is as though God is encouraging you through us. We beg you, for Christ's sake, come back to God!"