What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

We can belief in anything we want. However, when it comes to the subject of Jesus Christ, the most important thing should be, not what we believe, but what Jesus himself believed and taught.

Jesus claimed to be only 'God's Son,' not God, after being accused of claiming he was God (or, a god): "do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" (Jn 10.36)

Jesus directed others to worship, not him, but the Father, Mt 4.10: Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” At Jn 4.24, he taught: "the true worshippers will worship the Father [not me] with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him."

The Jewish people during the 1st century were very familiar with the meaning of the word proskyneo (worship, obeisance) as used in the Septuagint. Three quarters (3/4) of its many uses in the LXX (179x) were connected to the worship of the One True God of Israel, and/or of the false gods of the nations. That means there is one quarter (1/4) left of uses where it was applied to others beside God/false gods, that is to humans, among these. That's a lot of instances (more than 40x) in LXX. Therefore, any modern exegesis related to this word from the NT must be done by starting from this historical perspective.

Although it is stated in John & Colossians that 'everything was made through Christ,' both John & Paul cleared any potential misunderstanding of those words, by stating: "But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name. (Jn 20.31) Further, Jesus declared before others: Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me." --Jn 6.57. Would Almighty God ever say, "I live because of the Father"? God has no Father, but Jesus does. Even the book of Hebrews noted that Christ is depicted "at the right hand of God." (Heb 10.12)

Yes, Jesus is a Creator, but not the Grand Creator. As I stated before in this thread, the words "all" and "everything" in the description of creation by John, Colossians & Hebrews must be logically understood in a relative manner, since Paul indicated: the Christ is seated at the right hand of God. (Col 3.1) What's the point of Paul calling attention of the Colossians to the fact that Christ is seated at the right hand of God, if he was the Ultimate Creator, the Almighty God?

Furthermore, the use of the words of "all" and "everything" in the description of creation by John, Colossians & Hebrews goes hand-in-hand with the way we moderns use these words in our everyday lives. Ex., "the Church leaders took all the children to the city park." Does "all" here indicate that all the children of the city (or of the whole country or the world) went to the city park? Or more likely, that children associated with this Church went to the park? Context is everything.

Paul also noted that the resurrected exalted Christ was still under God in all matters: But I want you to know that... the head of the Christ is God. (1 Cor 11.3)

Paul appears to make a summary of Christ's place in the Universe in relation to God at 1 Cor 15.28: But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Again: "the true worshippers will worship the Father [not me, Jesus] with spirit and truth." There is no need to belittle Jesus Christ, since being the 'Greatest Being after the Father' is an honor. We all must 'bow down before Christ.' Our salvation depends on it.

Thus, all Scriptures cited by other posters need to be harmonized with these facts in order to reach a sound conclusion.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

Riley: "Please don’t use that “ other “ crap. It makes my skin crawl."

Someone greater than Jesus gave him the name above every [other] name. (Jn 3.16, 14.28, Acts 4.12)

The "other" in the above sentence is implied by Bible context.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

Vanderhoven7:

Is there a possiblity that you're misunderstanding SBF when he states that ‘placing faith in Jesus is also placing faith in the Father Jehovah, who sent him.’ (Those are my words, not his,verbatim. Actually this thought was conveyed by Christ himself at Jn 14.1)

If the President of USA sends Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan to convey the message that we as a country will stand by Taiwan should China try to invade Taiwan (She may say to them: "You will be safe with us") ... Should we, or they, conclude then, that all Taiwan needs from now on is Pelosi , forget the President of USA who sent her, no need for him any longer. Pelosi is now God. The Messenger then became 'greater than the Sender'? End of matter?

You make it sound like all a Christian needs to do is believe in Jesus and you're done. Not quite! Even mainstream scholars understand there is more to it than that.

Within the Jewish mode of thinking, they already had, for centuries, honored the God of the Hebrews YAHO (so they thought), but would they now honor the Messenger of God, Jesus? It was vital for the Jews to accept this new 'instrument of salvation' provided by their God. Jesus was clear when he communicated that they now had to ‘honor the Son as they honor the Father.’ (Jn 5.21) Jesus was not there to replace the Father as "the Most High" God. (Jn 14.6, 20.17, Ps 83.18, Lu 1.35)

I know there are various interpretations surrounding Jesus' role in the whole scheme of things. One scripture that stands out as a summary of why Jesus is so important in the lives of not only the Jews, but also of everyone else on earth, is this one from John 20.31: "But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name."

From what you're saying, someone can get the impression that faith in the Father is no longer necessary. 'Jehovah is superflous,' or so it seems. But the whole emphasis of Christian writings is there to convince people everywhere that 'Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, through whom we gain everlasting life.' Someone greater than Jesus gave him the name above every [other] name. (Jn 3.16, 14.28, Acts 4.12)

2

Linking documents between various devices

by Wonderment in

i would like to know how some of you link your various computers, tablets, phones and the like?

do you network them?

or, do you use secure shell (ssh)?

Wonderment

Thanks Simon for the tip!

2

Linking documents between various devices

by Wonderment in

i would like to know how some of you link your various computers, tablets, phones and the like?

do you network them?

or, do you use secure shell (ssh)?

Wonderment

I would like to know how some of you link your various computers, tablets, phones and the like?

Do you network them? Or, do you use Secure Shell (ssh)? I have used the open source "ssh" and "Syncthing" to link devices together.

Recently, I found out something simpler to use to share documents, photos, etc., and it was right there in front of my nose all along -- Signal & Telegram messengers:

Signal, has what they call "Note to Self" (Just type it in their search box), where you can dump, copy, paste, or whatever you want to call it. Once you link your devices together, whatever you put in the "Note to Self" message, it will automatically show up at once in all your linked devices, in a few seconds (time dependent on type & size of documents).

The same with Telegram: Telegram has what they call "Saved Messages." In this box, you can drop whatever you like, and if you have linked devices, it will show up on all of them at once. Even better, with Telegram you can create all the independent "channels" you want for different tasks or themes, say Bible, Books, Photos, Music, or what have you. You can move them around as you please.

Telegram has huge limits on storage amounts, making it a very popular medium for a storage device. I suggest you make these channels "Private," instead of "Public," unless you want everyone else to see what you store in them.

Let me know if you find this tip useful, or perhaps, let us know of better available options.

The NWT shows up in unexpected places!

by Wonderment in

do you know the most repeated command in the bible?.

cristina rutkowski fordwhat topic related to christianity, faith, and the bible is trending online and in social media today?.

the combination of “bible” and “command” usually has some solemn, and sometimes grim, connotations.

Wonderment

Do You Know the Most Repeated Command in the Bible?

Cristina Rutkowski FordWhat topic related to Christianity, faith, and the Bible is trending online and in social media today?
2017Nov 21

Unsplash

The combination of “Bible” and “command” usually has some solemn, and sometimes grim, connotations. And understandably so. Especially in the Old Testament, there is an unavoidable connection with God’s commands with his consequences — some of which appear uncomfortably harsh. Especially for our modern sensibilities.

So if someone asked after the most common command in the Bible, your mind would probably immediately jump to some serious “do nots”, “shall nots”, reprimands, and rules.

But what if someone told you God’s most repeated command in the Bible was to be happy?

Before launching into an elaborate theological counter-argument, let’s take a closer look at this point. In his article on Desiring God, Jon Bloom highlights the following as the most repeated Biblical commands:

“Praise the Lord”
“Do not be afraid”
“Rejoice”
“Give thanks”

____________________________________________

Is this not a sample of the NWT 2013 Revision in the hand of someone holding the Bible?

Taken from Crosswalk, an evangelical website: (https://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/christian-trends/the-most-repeated-command-in-the-bible.html)

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

Vanderhoven7: "My take is that God wanted His Son's name to be glorified among men above every other name that is named. So He made sure there was no salvation outside of that name; that unless we receive the Son we cannot be adopted as sons... Jesus says: "Come unto me" while the Watchtower says, "Come to Jehovah's organization to be saved"."

There is no doubt that Christians have to accept Jesus as their Savior in the name of God. (John 14.6, Acts 4.12) Other entities vying to take the place of Christ are in the wrong. I think the WTS is overstepping the role and authority of Jesus Christ by giving themselves the role of 'the oracle of Jehovah.' Jesus stated that he himself 'will be with his followers until the conclusion of the age.' -Mt. 28.20. In his physical absence, he promised them the manifestation of "the helper" by means of "the spirit of the truth" sent from the Father. (John 15.26)

Thus, every noble effort springing from a human organization is severely limited compared to what the Father can accomplish through his Son.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

"What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?"

This odd question cannot be answered by tallying up two names in two columns to see which one appears most frequently.

The NT is not a replacement of the OT. It is a continuation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The NT offers a culmination or presentation of multiple prophecies from the OT leading to, and surrounding the Messiah. One portion of the Bible is incomplete without the other.

Since the Trinity teaching is most popular among mainstream Western religions, the OT often ends up in the back seat by having the "unpopular" but important Tetragrammaton appear more often than any other name in the Bible. Here is a list of most popular names (i.e. 'male') in the Bible, according to this source: https://www.bonpounou.com/namesinbible.html):

"Most Mentioned Men in the Bible:

David - 1,118 times
Jesus - 973 times
Moses - 740 times
Aaron - 339 times
Saul - 338 times
Abraham - 306 times"

Should we then emphasize the name of "Saul" over that of "Abraham" in the Bible since it is mentioned more?

Although Jesus Christ is at the center of the NT revelation of God, it normally does so within the context of God fulfilling his will of the salvation of mankind through the person of Jesus Christ (John 3.16, Acts 4.12). Jesus never usurps the place of the Father, God (John 17.3, 20.17, 1 Cor 15.28). He comes in the name of God to do His will. All post-NT efforts to explain the trinitarian claim that Jesus was both God and man at the same time flies against the general biblical teaching of simple monotheism, which the Jewish people so adhered to.

Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that Jesus was "both God and man." Can anyone name a single scripture that makes this statement in clear language? In fact, the popular tripartite language has more in common with Greek philosophy than biblical teaching. We actually lose accuracy by superimposing a convoluted fourth century dogma over the simple original concept of the first century monotheistic doctrine.

6

Watched 1st WT Video in 30 years!

by Wonderment in

today i watched my 1st wt drama video since 30 years ago when i quit as a jw member.

the strange thing is that i did not choose to start watching this video.

it was my wife who's never been a witness, who started going over the jw.org site, and came across the new videos.

Wonderment

Today I watched my 1st WT Drama Video since 30 years ago when I quit as a JW member. The strange thing is that I did not choose to start watching this video. It was my wife who's never been a Witness, who started going over the JW.org site, and came across the new videos.

She started watching the Daniel Drama Video, and then I noticed this was quite different from the dramas we were exposed to decades ago. Back then the WT dramas were, comparatively speaking, of poor quality. Most of the brothers & sisters who took part then were not really good actors. I myself participated in a couple of them, in one, we had to study for months to memorize the lines. The recent Daniel video is way above those from the past. They are more like modern movies, and surprisingly, of good quality.

They are still lacking the most dramatic, explosive parts of mainstream movies, but hey, I was impressed enough with their latest efforts. Considering the WT lacks the experience of major movie studios, the finished product is not bad at all.

Would anyone here care to relate your honest impressions on the recent WT dramas-movies they been hatching?

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

SBF: "How come the people who insist the pronunciation of the divine name is a deal breaker don’t say the same about Jesus, whose pronunciation in the first century clearly does not match?"

Precisely! You could have used bold letters to emphasize this. Those who ignore this issue are just reflecting their religious bias.

Furthermore, some posters keep making the same assumptions as a fact, like the Divine Name was never in the original manuscripts. Textual experts, of the like of, Bruce B. Metzger & Philip W. Comfort have pointed out that the original text have been tampered with in hundreds of places, not surprisingly, many in places where the identity of God and Jesus were confounded. The Divine Name most likely suffered the fate of this state of confusion leading to its removal by unscrupulous copyists, as evidence suggest.

Another mistake often overlooked, is the tendency of people of this era looking at the NT with posterior or subsequent NT interpretations, not by the more relevant Jewish standpoint. Most of the Jewish people during the 1st century did not believe that Jesus Christ was their promised Messiah. They mostly believed in the Father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as Jehovah, or whatever name you prefer to replace the Tetragrammaton with. There was no need to convince the Jews that Yahweh was their God. They already accepted that!

What the Jews did need to comprehend during the 1st century was that their salvation was contingent on accepting Yahweh's messenger, Jesus Christ. Hence, the need to repeat this important message throughout the NT. (John 3.16, Acts 4.12) The Hebrews already honored Yahweh for nearly 2,000 years. Would they now accept this Messenger, their "Messiah?" Would they now 'honor him as they honored the Father,' who sent him? (John 5.23) That was their test of faith.

Moving forward in time, religious folks often make the most obvious blunders. They even fail to apply John 14.6 correctly (No one comes to the Father, except through me). Trinitarians tend to honor Jesus more than the Sender, the Father who sent him. And JWs tend to place Jesus below their organization. These extreme views are biblically off.

Those who cite John 1.3 & Col 1.16 that "all things were created by Christ" as proof that Christ is Almighty God in a trinitarian sense need to check their favorite Concordance. The original words for "all" in the Bible rarely means "everything." Often there are exceptions to the meaning of the "all" word, as is clearly shown in the following verse. (1 Cor 15.27) Even modern folks rarely use "all" to include everything under the sun. Example: All were present at the church. Does this include the whole town?

Wonderment

Posts by Wonderment

Do You Know the Most Repeated Command in the Bible?