cofty

Joined

• started 464 topics
• posted 24,957 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by cofty

• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  It is not only cheaper but healthier in the long run for a victim to part with the most valuable of possessions

  Not if lives of your loved ones are at stake.
  
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  many ordinary people, the sort called on to fight, or their families, probably a majority of people, would consider the end of war to be a moral good - SBF

  Obviously!

  War is bad.

  Refusing to stop an aggressor is also bad.

  How many ways are there to avoid the actual topic?
  
  
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  pacifist is a misnomer - Shadow

  It never fail to disappoint how so many people can't be bothered to read a concise OP before commenting.

  Technically the Watchtower are not pacifists; they just refuse to take life. - O.P.

  
  
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  JWs belive you can defend yourself or loved ones if their life is threatened

  Wilfully taking a life is forbidden. Owning a firearm and shooting a burglar would get you in front of a JC. So would joining the army. So would being an armed policeman.

  That is morally infantile.
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  If Germany had won the war it would have been Britain and Russia that were proved to be entirely wrong - Earnest

  So are you arguing that "might is right?".

  Who wins a war has absolutely no bearing on the morality of the conflict. The Third Reich was an evil ideology that murdered millions of innocents in the name of Aryan supremacy. The Allies conquered it by the overwhelming use of deadly force. There was no alternative. Even if Germany had won the war it would still have been an evil ideology.

  Russia who won the war against Germany represented an ideology that was every bit as evil. History has judged totalitarian regimes regardless of their military success.

  it was Britain who was first responsible for concentration camps (in South Africa) in which 20,000 women and children died

  What has that got to do with the topic? I'm not representing Britain in the Oppression Olympics.

  Let's try again to get back to the actual topic...

  1 - Sometimes saving lives of innocents requires the use of lethal force. Whether that is protecting your family from criminals, stopping armed terrorists in a city centre or defeating an army bent on genocide.

  2 - The Watchtower forbid the deliberate taking of a human life in all circumstances.

  3 - Many ex-JWs continue to view the Watchtower' position as a virtue.
• 
  12

  Welcome me

  by natasha in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello brothers and sisters am new here , what is the website all about ?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Hi natasha, welcome to the forum.
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Listener - If the same outcome can be achieved by the use of non-lethal force then that is preferable in most instances. That is not what the thread is about.

  I am talking about the hypocrisy of the Watchtower who forbid the taking of a human life under any circumstances even when that is necessary to save the lives of others.

  That may involve defending your own wife and children from criminals, fighting terrorist, being part of a war against aggressors or defending a population from genocide - as the international community failed to do in Bosnia.

  That dogmatic position is moral cowardice. It is not a virtue to insist that taking a life is wrong, if doing so saves other innocent lives. Our national and international laws reflect that principle. JWs are moral cowards and yet many ex-JWs seem to go on supporting this dogma.

  Shadow - What has that got to do with the discussion?

  I was raised in the cult and had no opportunity to join the military. My son is in the military. I would not hesitate to use lethal force to defend myself or others if necessary - would you?
• 
  46

  Will Artificial Intellegence Make The Human Race Extinct?

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. social
  2. current

  i think it is inevitable.

  i don't worry about it but it just seems that the human race is going down a road that they can't make a turn off.. they are probing/discovering how the human mind works and produces intelligence down to the individual molecule.

  now with the invention of the super quantum computer soon we will be able to build even better artificial intelligence greater than our own, so it will be easily able to out smart us because will we be a bunch of dumb apes first discovering how to make fire in it's eyes.. it will have it's own different agendas than us humans.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Fiction.
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  The Third Reich may appear monstrous to you but it did not for the thousands of German soldiers who fought during the war. - Earnest

  And history has proven beyond all sensible doubt that they were entirely wrong and those of us who judge the Third Reich to be odious beyond redemption entirely correct.

  most people who use deadly force whether at war, or otherwise, believe they are justified in doing so. Including your group of terrorists on the rampage with guns.

  They too are entirely wrong. Murder and oppression in the cause of utopian ideologies - Fascist, Islamic, Communist - is evil and must be opposed, by deadly force if necessary. My contempt for moral relativism is total. There are moral facts - to deny them is as obtuse as the ravings of creationism or advocates of a flat earth.

  would I be correct to assume that you believe those who refused to fight for Nazi Germany or apartheid South Africa because they believed it was wrong to take a human life are moral cowards?

  Any German who refused to murder others in the name of an evil ideology is a hero - but that does not make them a pacifist. If they would also refuse to use lethal force to defend their wife of children then yes they are moral cowards. Motive is everything.
• 
  78

  Pacifism is Morally Indefensible

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been surprised recently to see so much support by ex-jws for the watchtower's refusal to fight and kill.

  in my opinion it is a vice masquerading as a virtue.

  of course war should always be a last resort but there are occasions that it has to be done.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Earnest are you trying to make a moral equivalence between the monstrosity of the Third Reich and the Allied forces that defeated them? Surely not!

  This thread is NOT specifically about WWII as I made clear in the OP. However WWII provides an example of a time when it took moral and physical courage to defeat fascism.

  My point is that taking and ideological position that it is wrong to take another human life is morally indefensible.

  Take the situation of a group of terrorists on the rampage with guns. The only way to save innocent lives is to kill them. JWs are hypocrites in this regard.

  Rejecting deadly force on principle is moral cowardice.- O.P.