Posts by cofty

42

Providing salvation is not that important

by pixel in

the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.

cofty

For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil - Joen

Go on then I'll bite...

42

Providing salvation is not that important

by pixel in

the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.

cofty

The biggest error the Watchtower make in this topic is to identify Jesus' death with the sin of Adam.

According to any Christian Jesus died for their sins. According to any JW Jesus died for Adam's sin.

Russell taught vicarious sacrifice and defended it against Nelson Barbour's attack on the doctrine. It was over this point that they split up.

Rutherford turned it into a legalistic transaction and now no JW would think in terms of Jesus' death as a vicarious punishment for their own personal sins.

7

Anyone from Cathcart congregation!

by R1001 in

hey everyone, just joined this.

anyone here from cathcart congregation or any others in glasgow?

left there 3 years ago when i was 17. .

So how were things in Cathcart before you left? I knew a few from there back in the 80s. The Greenlees family were well known. They had a chain of shoe shops and a relative on the Governing Body who became notorious as a sexual predator. If I remember rightly my pioneer school was in Cathcart.

I used to go to Langside College near that side of Glasgow. I grew up in Coatbridge congregation.

18

racism

by Stealth in

jw
friends

having been raised as a jw, racism was something that was never promoted.

i now have a 9 year old that has been visiting her biological grandmother and my ex-wife.

it is my child because i adopted her.

cofty

I suppose for me it would depend on the severity of the racist comments. 'Racist' covers a wide spectrum of opinion.

She is old enough for you to explain to her that some people have opinions and views about others that are unkind but will it really damage her to be exposed to them? Will it damage her more than breaking a relationship with he relatives?

She will come across plenty of objectionable opinions in her life. Perhaps it would be better to use it as a learning opportunity.

27

New Wuhan coronavirus around.....

by mikeflood in

new coronavirus wreaking havoc.....first case detected in the us one hour ago....six deaths already in china.....hope it gets controlled soon.....

cofty

Don't tarnish all news outlets by the sensationalism of a few.

27

New Wuhan coronavirus around.....

by mikeflood in

new coronavirus wreaking havoc.....first case detected in the us one hour ago....six deaths already in china.....hope it gets controlled soon.....

cofty

Six possible cases in the UK including four in Edinburgh.

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

cofty

the Son can do nothing by himself

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

cofty

I'm still agreeing - it's starting to feel weird.

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

cofty

Whether Jesus as God’s representative should be “worshipped” and what that means may be more debatable. - SBF

9] Early Christians rendered WORSHIP to Jesus.

The Greek word rendered worship is proskenyo. Depending on the grammatical context different forms of the same word are used in scripture. For simplicity we will substitute the simple form proskenyo in each case. Whenever it is used in connection with Jehovah the NWT translates it accurately as worship. However when it is used with reference to Jesus the word obeisance is used instead. While it is true that proskenyo can denote an act of respect which falls short of worship there are a number of instances in the New Testament where the context clearly demands the stronger translation.

When Jesus walked on the sea of Galilee and calmed the storm, the apostles were astonished at his power;
'Then those on the boat 'proskenyo' him saying you are really God's Son.' - Matt.14:33

When Jesus identified himself to the man he had cured of blindness, the man said;
'I do put faith in him Lord. And he proskenyo him.' - Jhn. 9:38

When the two Marys met the resurrected Jesus in the garden;
'They approached and caught him by his feet and proskenyo him. - Matt. 28:9

As Jesus was ascending back to heaven he blessed his disciples and they;
'Having proskenyo him returned to Jerusalem with great joy.' - Luke 24:52

In each of these examples it is not simply an act of respect that is being described but an act of worship. That it involved more than the physical act of bowing is particularly clear in the account involving the two Marys where the scripture, having told us that they caught him by the feet goes on to add that they proskenyo him. In these and other examples it is noteworthy that Jesus never once offers a word of reproof to anyone involved. It is enlightening to compare this with three other occasions where the word proskenyo is used in the New Testament.

'As Peter entered, Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet and proskenyo him. But Peter lifted him up saying, Rise I myself am also a man. - Acts 10:25,26

Similarly John was so overcome with the awesome visions of Revelation that twice he fell down at the feet of the angel who was showing him these things;
'At that I fell down before his feet to proskenyo him. but he tells me, Be careful do not do that. All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers.' - Rev.19:10

In Revelation, John heard every creature in heaven and on earth say;
'The lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and blessing. To the one seated on the throne and to the lamb be the blessing and the honour and the glory and the might forever and ever. And the four living creatures went saying Amen.' - Rev.5:12-14

Such an outpouring of adoration can not be interpreted as anything less than worship. Immediately after these things John tells us what he saw next;
'And the elders fell down and worshipped.' - Rev. 5:14

In this graphic description of an event that involved every one of God's creatures there is no distinction at all between the worship and adoration given to the one seated on the throne and that offered to the lamb.

If we begin with the assumption that worship is not be give to Jesus then we are forced to explain all the falling at his feet, that the gospel writers were careful to record for us, as simply gestures of respect. This despite the fact that elsewhere Cornelius and John are reprimanded for the same thing. We also have to invent the unbiblical notion of relative worship and contradict the most fundamental of Old Testament truths by allowing for worshipping God through someone else, a kind of legalised idolatry. Even all of this is not enough to deal with the amazing scenes described at Rev. 5:11-14.

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

cofty

taking the New Testament as a whole I definitely think that Jesus is presented as a representative of God and is not identified with God himself. - SBF

I think there is a danger in viewing the NT as a single consistent document. There is an evolution of Christology in the NT.