I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

smiddy3

Is there a difference ? I believe so ,and a very big difference.One that harmonises with the New testament in bearing witness to Jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to Jehovah and his Kingdom something that is condemned in the Bible.
C.T.Russell started the magazine called "Zions Watchtower and herald of Christs Presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about Jesus christ and his Kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on Jesus & his Kingdom with what the new Testament is all about.
J.F.Rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the Watchtower to " The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah`s Kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the New Testament and takes away the importance and role that Jesus christ has in bringing people to God.Phil.2:9-11
Nowhere in the Christian Greek Scriptures / New Testament are followers of Jesus Christ instructed to be witnesses of Jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.
However in the Christian Greek scriptures / new Testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of Jesus.
And it was by divine providence that followers of Christ were to be called Christians .Acts 11:26 , not Jehovah`s witnesses.
Do JW`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?
The JW`s use Isaiah 43:10-12 an Old Testament scripture to justify calling themselves Jehovah`s Witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name Jehovah`s Witnesses ? NO ,were they ever chastised because they didnt do so ? NO ,because that wasnt the intent .Even when Jesus was on earth he didn`t chastise them for not identifying themselves with the name Jehovah`s witnesses ,which he would have done if that was the purpose of that scripture.
The governing body of Jehovah`s Witnesses have adopted in their teachings another Gospel one which is foreign to the teachings of the Christian Greek Scriptures / new Testament .
2 Cor.11:3-5
And puts them outside of Gods favour .
slimboyfat

The name Jesus means Jehovah is salvation. Each instance of witness to Jesus is calling attention to the salvation that comes from Jehovah.
His name and everything Jesus said and did directed glory not to himself but to God the Father. (Phil 2:11)
There is no opposition between the two names or witnesses, because to be a witness of Jesus is to be a witness that Jehovah is salvation. The name of Jehovah is emphasised by the use of the name Jesus in the New Testament, not diminished by it.
The Jews in this period verbalised the divine name as Yaho and the name Jesus was pronounced Yahoshua or Yoshua. So saying the name Jesus literally invoked the divine name also. Early Christians were well aware of the meaning of the name Yahoshua (Matt 1:21) that the messiah is Jehovah’s means of salvation.
cofty

Totally agree Smiddy. There has definitely been a shift away from recognition of Jesus in the history of the Watchtower. Comparing a JWs attitude to Jesus with that of early christians is very revealing.
I wrote an article on this when I first left the cult - Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church
Here is the final paragraph.
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In view of this sample of texts quoted above, it would seem reasonable to say that Jehovah's Witnesses do not speak about Jesus in the same manner as early Christians did. The apostles described themselves as witnesses of Jesus, they called him their only owner and Lord, and the one to whom they belonged. They were baptised in his name, led by his Spirit, rejoiced in his blessing and overflowed with praise for him. All of these statements are incompatible with the beliefs and practice of Jehovah's Witnesses. Even if an individual Witness may feel comfortable with such expressions they could never voice such sentiments in the hearing of others. There can be no doubt that if a Jehovah's Witness were to go back to a meeting of early Christians they would feel profoundly out of place.
The Fall Guy

What Jesus did and what his name meant should not be used by anyone to validate the anti-scriptural name of "Jehovah's Witnesses."
Pure & simple, in black & white, every scripture unequivocally informed Christians exactly whose name they were to be witnesses of - Jesus'.
Matthew 10:18; Mark 13:9; Luke 24:48; John 1:15; 5:37; John 8:18; John 15:26, 27; Acts 1:8; 9:15,16; 10:39; 10:43; 13:31; 22:15; 22:20; 23:11; 26:16; 1 Cor. 1:6; 1 Tim. 2:6, 7; 2 Tim. 1:8; 1 John 5:9; Rev. 1:9; 12:17; 17:6; 19:10; 20:4.
There was only one witness for God/God's name - Christ Jesus! (Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14; Revelation 19:11)
JoenB75

Jehovah or Yahweh was the Lord of old Israel, Jesus is the appointed heir of all things as it says in Hebrews 1:2. The error started in Russell with his Arianism and focus on the plan of God rather than the person of Jesus. Today the difference between the Bible's view of Jesus and the JW orgs view of Jesus has grown grotesque and obvious for anyone to see. He is not the Lord of the witnesses, but an example of extreme obedience. Imagine a being so mighty he created all [other] things, who lowers himself to be called one of the princes and even says ok when God tells him to come down on earth and die on a cross. What obedience. The mystery of God himself becoming man and dying for sins is all gone.
slimboyfat

Christians are witnesses to the fact that Jehovah raised Jesus from the dead. They are not witnesses of Jesus apart from Jehovah. They are witnesses to the fact that Jehovah saves by means of Jesus.
Acts 2:32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.
Acts 3:15 whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.
To be a witness of Jesus means to be a witness to his resurrection by God, that Jehovah is salvation.
Further, the NT says that Christians are taken out of the nations for Jehovah’s name.
Acts 15:14 Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old.’
The Fall Guy

I can see the point you're trying to make, but it does not cancel out the fact that all the scriptures state very clearly that Christians were to witness for Jesus - not Jehovah - as well as being named "Christians" by God himself. Otherwise, God would have called them "Jehovah's" or "Jehovah's Witnesses." (Acts 11:26)
Christians would live and die by Christ's name and rely on it for everything - not God's name:
(Matthew 10:22) And you will be hated by all people on account of my name,......
(Matthew 18:20) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name,....
(Matthew 19:29) .......for the sake of my name......will inherit everlasting life.
(Matthew 24:9) .......and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.
(Luke 10:17) “...even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.”
(Luke 21:12) ......brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name.
(Luke 21:16, 17) .......and you will be hated by all people because of my name.
(John 2:23) .....many people put their faith in his (Jesus') name........
(John 5:27, 28) .....in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice..
(John 14:26) But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name,
(John 15:16) ......no matter what you ask the Father in my name,
(Acts 2:38) Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
(Acts 3:6) In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!”
(Acts 4:10,12) .....in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene,...for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
(Acts 5:40) . . .and ordered them to stop speaking on the basis of Jesus’ name.
(Acts 5:41) ....counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his [Jesus'] name.
(Acts 9:14-16) .....all those calling on your name.....he must suffer for my name.”
(Acts 10:48) .....he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
(Acts 11:26) ..........the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.
(Acts 16:18) “I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.”
(Acts 19:5) On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(Acts 22:16) ....get baptized, and wash your sins away by your calling on his name.’
(1 Corinthians 6:11) ...been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Corinthians 5:15) .....no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them.
(Philippians 2:10) .....so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend......
(Hebrews 13:15) Through him (Jesus) let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that make public declaration to his* name.
(Revelation 2:3) ....and you have borne up for my name’s sake...
(Revelation 2:13) ......and yet you keep on holding fast my name,. . .
HiddenPimo

IF I ever need to read an instruction that deals with my personal safety and one that if followed incorrectly results in severe harm or death to myself or others, then I would have a difficult time with any said instruction that requires me to think "Well, what it's really trying to say is...or What this really means is..."
Fall Guy - thanks for the scriptural references. They make clear the way readers should understand who we should direct our attention to: Jesus Christ.
Now in other news - Help me to understand how I can dismiss the Flood Account and Adam and Eve account so that I can still have faith in the Bible, since these 2 accounts are totally inaccurate based on archaeology and science.
Magnum

This is interesting, thought-provoking, and informative. I love threads like this. I am openly considering both points of view and appreciate the evidence/reasoning presented from both sides. The "Jesus" side presents a lot of evidence, but slimboyfat makes good, reasonable arguments. Making a copy of thread for later consideration.
Vanderhoven7

Yes, Russell advanced that Jesus was entitled to real worship. It was in 1954 that the Society limited Jesus to obeisance or relative worship.

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

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