cofty

Joined

• started 464 topics
• posted 24,957 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by cofty

• 
  27

  Do as we SAY, but not as we DO!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. social
  2. current

  "it's easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they've been fooled.

  it's not just jw's who blindly follow their leaders.

  it's horrifying to see how easily mass-hysteria has been instilled in a nation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Conspiracy theorists are the most naive and gullible people in society - ironically they think they are enlightened.

  Exactly like JWs.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Thank you Iriddle80 - I think that it is important to really understand a subject before you criticise it. Try to present it in a way that an opponent would not need to correct. I think it is sometimes referred to as a steelman position as opposed to a strawman.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Joan - You admit that christianity has made you despise the human race. Why should anybody respect your dehumanising dogma?
• 
  2

  So much for the UK's "devolved" assemblies!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. social
  2. current

  on the subject of "dis/united kingdom," i said: "i thought this was a national crisis.

  boris only acts as prime minister of england.

  " https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5193703416135680/dis-united-kingdom.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  cofty

  Boogy - What piece of the devolution settlement do you imagine Boris has 'ripped up' exactly?

  It's not that complicated. Protecting UK borders is a matter for Westminster, it was never devolved. No consultation is necessary. Specific implementation of new UK rules on overseas visitors is being left to devolved governments. e.g what the penalties are for breaking the rules.

  Rules regarding public health, education etc are devolved and have been decided by devolved governments throughout.

  So Scotland cannot ignore the new rules on the requirement for people entering the country via Edinburgh airport to be quarantined for 14 days - that would be illegal and Nicola Sturgeon need not be consulted - but they have responsibility to make specific plans how to implement the change. They can however decide when schools return.

  Simple.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Diogenesister - The key is vicarious punishment.

  Think about the Day of Atonement. The High Priest confessed the nation's sins. The people deserved to die. God accepted the life of an animal in their place. The lamb was sacrificed and the HP presented the blood on the altar in the Holy of Holies. The lamb was punished vicariously in the place of penitent Jews.

  Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. A righteous god must punish sin. We deserve to die for the actual things we do wrong - not for our 'inherited imperfection' as JWs teach. Jesus' suffering and death was the punishment due to us that he took in our place.

  Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering,
  yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.

  But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities;
  the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

  We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way;
  and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. - Isa 53

  He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls - 1 Peter 2

  Ask a JW why Jesus died and they will talk about the imperfection that Adam lost and one perfect life being exchanged for another perfect life.

  Ask a christian why Jesus died and they will say that he took their punishment on the cross as payment for all the things they do wrong.

  This was the thing that Barbour rejected. Russell taught the traditional christian view of Jesus' death as vicarious punishment. Barbour thought this was monstrous and likened it to beating his wife because the children has been naughty. Ever since then the WT claim that it upholds the 'ransom' has been nothing but spin.

  Personally I think Barbour was right but I also know that the christian perspective - very much the NT one - is psychologically powerful. The idea that Jesus was on the cross for your sins, not in order to complete some impersonal legal transaction.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  So christianity is about hating your family and despising the human race.

  What a contemptible and dehumanising worldview.
• 
  656

  Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic is to focus on status updates & advice (no opinion or politics please).. status.

  latest status is that it's serious, probably isn't going to be contained and most large companies are making contingency plans, cancelling large events etc... which i don't think would happen if it was just people being alarmist.

  the incubation period means it may have already spread further and infected many more people than are currently known, so expect jumps in the numbers over the coming days and weeks.. tracking.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Welcome back Mr Doom & Gloom
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Joan - You did NOT say that you hated evil. You said that you 'despise the human race'.

  I was about to say that this attitude makes you a terrible christian but actually I think it just makes you a christian who accidentally spoke his mind.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Exactly TD!

  I don't think many - if any - JWs understand the difference. IMO it is this that distinguishes a JW from a mainstream xtian.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  I despise Christian apolegetics and philosophy nearly as much as I do the human race - Joan

  If being a christian makes you despise the human race then you need a new religion.

  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love - John: 4:8