Posts by cofty

226

The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman in

is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?

many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.

but this dishonors gods word.

cofty

p.s Check out Stockholm Syndrome. I think many christians suffer from it

226

The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman in

is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?

many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.

but this dishonors gods word.

cofty

Without this doctrine firmly in place, Christians will lose their evangelistic edge

I am assuming this is a parody? "God loves you, love him back or burn"

214

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

That doesn't work BJW. If the bible is inerrant then god ordered the cold blooded slaughter of thousands of babies. You have yet to explain how he can still be good.

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

Apart from the Calvinists who are about to point out that you and I can't earn our way into heaven through works, your proposal is absolutely the logical outcome of the best efforts of xtian apologists to square this particular circle.

Good god or inerrant bible - you choose, you can't have both.

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

Some arguments from christian apologists -

It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases. God gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die - John Piper

In some instances, God ordered the killing of entire populations, presumably including the killing of babies and children. Isn't God unrighteous in killing these innocent little ones? First of all, the Bible indicates that all people are sinners, including babies, and worthy of judgment. However, the Bible also indicates that children are incapable of making moral choices, so that they are automatically rewarded with heaven. So, in having babies killed, God is actually doing them a favor, since, if they had grown up opposed to God, they would have gone to hell. - Rich Deem

What then of the children? Death would be a mercy, as they would be ushered into the presence of God and spared the corrupting influences of a morally decadent culture. But what of terrorized mothers trying to protect their innocent children while Israelite armies invade? Here, perhaps a just war analogy might help. A cause might be morally justified (for example, stopping the aggression of Hitler and Japan), even if innocent civilians might be killed-an unfortunate "collateral damage" that comes with such scenarios. Furthermore, the infants and children who were killed by the Israelites would, in the afterlife, come to recognize God's just purposes, despite the horrors and terrors of war. They would side with God in the rightness of his purposes-even if it had meant temporary terror. - Paul Copan

By following these vacuous responses to their logical conclusion, "let the infanticide begin".

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

Cofty, you have the right to think that "my" God is beneath you. You are allowed that opinion. But you are being deceptive, are you not? Are you not an atheist? Are you not trying to tear God down so as to show that He is not "real"? - brotherdan

No I'm not being deceptive. I am pointing out that christians want to have their cake and eat it. You simply cannot have a good god and a literal Bible. There is a glaring contradiction in your worldview. If these things happened as the OT says your god would be a monster. If these things did not really happen by god's decree then your bible is no more special than any other book.

And that was their problem, dear one: they SHOULD have had it... because Noah had it... Abraham had it... Jacob (Israel) had it... Joseph had it... Moses had it. And they all got it from the same One that I received it from... who is the SAME one that accompanied THEM... Christ - AGuest

No actually Moses did not have it. He was the one who ordered the massacre of tens of thousands of babies in my OP

33

How to prepare for a JC defense

by brotherdan in

many of you have heard this recording, but i wanted to post it again for some of you (bottleofwater) that will possibily be in jc's soon.

rick townsend does an excellent job (imo) of attempting to defend his position to the elders.

in nearly every category his arguments are stronger.. it is a bit frustrating to listen to because of the elders lack of reasoning ability, but rick is amazing.

cofty

One other elder left the borg for good as a direct result of the investigation leading up to my JC.

I would not blame anybody for deciding not to attend. Why play their games?

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

AGuest thank you for your comments. I applaud your willingness to argue with god but I have to say your point sounds like an anachronism. You seem to be allowing yourself the luxury of a knowledge of god as revealed in the NT through Jesus and taking that back with you in your theological DeLorean to the Bronze Age.

None of the soldiers in the Israeli army appear to have had such insight. Having said that I do admire you for your refusal to justify a war crime as others seem ready to do.

PSacramento if I was still a believer I would want to be your sort of believer. You are not a slave to the concept of biblical inerrancy - "the word made ink"

Another poster has pointed me at the words of CS Lewis, I suspect you would agree?

Magdalene College, Cambridge 3 July 1963
Dear Mr Beversluis,
Yes. On my view one must apply something of the same sort of explanation to say, the atrocities (and treacheries) of Joshua. I see the grave danger we run by doing so; but the danger of believing in a God whom we cannot but regard as evil, and then, in mere terrified flattery calling Him “good” and worshipping Him, is a still greater danger. The ultimate question is whether the doctrine of the goodness of God or that of the inerrancy of Scripture is to prevail when they conflict. I think the doctrine of the goodness of God is the more certain of the two. Indeed only that doctrine renders this worship of Him obligatory or even permissible.

BrotherdAn you subscribe to a doctrine of "might is right". Your god is beneath me.

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

The kids had to die because nations of that time seemed to be extra-fond of holding grudges for hundreds of years. So, these kids posed a threat to the descendants of the conquering Israelites.

I find your ethics disgusting.

If you imagine similar brutal war crimes don't happen in conflicts in modern times you need to start getting your news from more reliable sources.

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cofty

But we, ourselves, do not have all the facts to be able to pass judgment.

But we do have the fact that the bible says that god commanded his armies to commit despicable war crimes.

Our options are to either applaud god's cruelty or to concede that the bible is not what its claimed to be