the fact that man can't and hasn't been able to create life is a major problem
No it isn't. That is like setting about solving the biggest puzzle ever invented and five minutes later somebody starts complaining that you haven't solved it yet.
Posts by cofty
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27Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?
by EdenOne ini have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.
your thoughts?.
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cofty
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
Getting back to the topic.... (before SBF shits on it again)
As a JW and then a christian my belief was that life was something ethereal that belonged only to god. That was also the basis of objections to abortion and even forms of oral contraception that prevented the implantation of a fertilised ovum. It was the primary objection to euthanasia.
The bible says somewhere, "with you is the source of life, with light from you we see light". The creation account portrays a lifeless corpse being imbued with the breath of life and Adam is animated.
Ecclesiastes talks about the spirit going out and returning to god.
On this understanding the efforts of scientists to see if life will emerge from geochemistry is an impossible task. It is not doomed to failure because it is too technically difficult, it is doomed because life comes only from the lifegiver. The barrier is theological not scientific.
I have heard believers on this forum raise similar objections to origin-of-life science many times.
It's interesting that a biblical literalist like Vidqun began with that position but has shifted to the position that science could succeed but that god would not permit them to do so.
I am trying to get to the central question of what is life, what does christianity say about it and how progress in origin-of-life research might challenge long-held assumptions.
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27
Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?
by EdenOne ini have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.
your thoughts?.
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cofty
I like the idea of intelligent design.
Reality doesn't care what we like.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
if scientists manage to generate life from non-life you believe this some how will prove that life can arise without God. But what is the basis for the assertion? - SBF
It turns out there is such a thing as a dumb question.
It depends on what you mean by "what", it depends on what you mean by "is", it depends on what you mean by "the", it depends on what you mean by "basis", it depends on what you mean by "for", it depends on what you mean by "the", it depends on what you mean by "assertion".
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
You asked what impact scientific discoveries on the origin of life would have on believers and how they would respond. The question assumes that scientific discoveries impact philosophical or theological questions. - SBF
Science has impacted on theological questions again and again and will continue to do so.
It is just incredible that anybody would doubt it. How many examples can you think of? Stop being so obtuse.
on this small blue dot there is a fella who has the origin of life all figured out - EQV
Once again theists resort to lying about the position of those who don't share their superstitions rather than address the actual question.
I have said repeatedly that origin-of-life science is about hypotheses. Evolution is a fact. No explanation of abiogenesis has yet reached that status.
My question is about what effect - if any - it will have on theism when science proves that life emerges from geochemistry without any intelligent agency.
It is an interesting question. It's fascinating to see how many ways there are to avoid it.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
How evolution explains the search of meaning in the human mind? - John Mann
It's a good question but this thread is about origin of life.
Edited to add - Thank you Viv for having the patience to explain that to SBF. I lacked the energy and motivation so I resorted to fuck off instead.
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27
Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?
by EdenOne ini have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.
your thoughts?.
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cofty
Directed Panspermia is a non-answer. -
405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
This isn't a "different level of interpretation," (a different focus, or scale), like saying the river is cold and the river is blue. It's like saying the river is blue and the river is red - A Ha
To all intelligent rational people this is a knock-down argument.
To purveyors of postmodernism it isn't.
SBF has argued that in regards to the shape of planet earth that the perspective of a worm - that the earth is flat (not seems flat, is flat) is just as valid as that of an astronaut.
I foolishly made the assertion that the planet earth is not flat only to be told "it depends what you mean by "the", it depends what you mean by "earth", it depends what you mean by "is", it depends what you mean by "not", it depends what you mean by "flat".
Remember too that god does not exist therefore he exists is also a valid argument in SBF's world.
You are dealing with a level of obscurantism and dishonesty that it hard to comprehend. If there were two people destroying threads in the way SBF does I would leave the forum tomorrow.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
I get the feeling that you got beat black and blue as a Christian in your online discussions after you left - Ruby
I never participated in any online discussions as a Christian.
I worked out for myself that theism was in error and left just as I did as a JW.
You could not be more wrong.
I think its a real shame that you didn't meet nice people lke slimbyfat
I have utter unmitigated contempt for SBF's postmodern pseudo-intellectual bullshit and dishonesty. How would meeting him have helped me exactly? I didn't need his help and still don't.
You make a lot of assumptions.
I think there is a nice guy who collects ancient coins in his spare time trying to come out
That is arrogant and condescending.
Apart from my contempt for SBF my interactions with believers in this thread has been nothing but respectful.
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Do you have / admire Charisma?
by The Rebel in"charisma is a certain quality of an individual personality by virtue of which the person is set apart from ordinary people and treated as exceptional".
as a kid i was afraid of such charisma, as it was usually the quality i noticed elders, head masters, and parents had to exercise with unloving authority over me.. but now i think about it "charisma" doesn't need be only for people with authority.
" charisma" is something even we can have?
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cofty
You haven't read the thread. - FHN
Yes I have. I nearly choked on my tea when I read the following..
I have been told that I have charisma. I don't tend to see it until I see video of myself. - FHN
Rebel is inventing his own unique self-serving definition of charisma.
"what makes this person exceptional? Well this person never takes the bait, never gets into the religious and political arguments..."