cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

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  cofty

  So christianity is about hating your family and despising the human race.

  What a contemptible and dehumanising worldview.
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  656

  Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic is to focus on status updates & advice (no opinion or politics please).. status.

  latest status is that it's serious, probably isn't going to be contained and most large companies are making contingency plans, cancelling large events etc... which i don't think would happen if it was just people being alarmist.

  the incubation period means it may have already spread further and infected many more people than are currently known, so expect jumps in the numbers over the coming days and weeks.. tracking.

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  cofty

  Welcome back Mr Doom & Gloom
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  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

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  cofty

  Joan - You did NOT say that you hated evil. You said that you 'despise the human race'.

  I was about to say that this attitude makes you a terrible christian but actually I think it just makes you a christian who accidentally spoke his mind.
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  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

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  cofty

  Exactly TD!

  I don't think many - if any - JWs understand the difference. IMO it is this that distinguishes a JW from a mainstream xtian.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

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• 

  cofty

  I despise Christian apolegetics and philosophy nearly as much as I do the human race - Joan

  If being a christian makes you despise the human race then you need a new religion.

  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love - John: 4:8
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  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

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  cofty

  Joan - So your defense of your perfect god is that humans are not always very good either.

  Wow.
• 
  41

  The ransom makes no sense

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

  if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

  it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

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  cofty

  It is only the Watchtower that focuses on Jesus' death as a 'ransom'. Russell taught that Jesus died to redeem Adam who would be saved. We were all saved - or given a second chance - by proxy. Rutherford cancelled Adam's redemption and changed it into the value of the perfect life that Adam forfeited.

  Ransom is only one of a number of metaphors that NT writers used to describe the effect of Jesus' death. It was a reference to the idea of the emancipation of a slave. Like most metaphors they make less sense the more literally you try to apply them. Primarily early christians - and modern ones - see Jesus' death in terms of vicarious punishment. In other words his punishment on the cross was the punishment christians deserve for their sins. It was this concept that Nelson Barbour rejected leading to a split with Russell.

  Why did Jesus die?

  JW - to buy back the perfect life that Adam lost by his disobedience.
  Christian - He took my punishment for my sins. 'By his stripes we were healed'.
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  19

  Watchtower President Dies From COVID-19!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower president dies of covid-19.

  https://nycinews.com/jehovahs-witnesses-president/?fbclid=iwar3n7jwlxwtmvhkjswhhdxekgxcvogw0jxp-rkyhfb_mg1trztlsb3uhkiw .

  petra!.

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  cofty

  Sorry to hear that.

  I'm guessing Robert Circanco's role was president of the legal corporation rather than 'spiritual'.

  I wonder how much contact he had with GB members. The accomodation blocks at Warwick would be an ideal environment for infection.
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  26

  Jephthah's Daughter

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

  i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

  if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

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  cofty

  God demanded Abraham murder his child. God ordered the murder of hundreds of Amalekite infants. God has form.
• 
  26

  Jephthah's Daughter

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

  i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

  if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

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  cofty

  God knew for a whole two months that Jephthah was going to murder his child in order to pay God back for the victory. He did NOTHING. He could have told his High Priest to intervene, he did not.

  Jephthah had good reason to think it was the ultimate way to prove his loyalty. God demanded that Abraham murder his child to prove his loyalty and only let him off with a last minute reprieve.

  Murdering children is a speciality of Yahweh - especially if their parents are the wrong nationality.

  The fact that Jephthah ended up with apparent leprosy, having to be buried in several places because his limbs fell off

  You have a strange definition of the word 'fact'. This post-biblical addition is nothing but a fig-leaf to cover Rabbinical embarrassment.