The problem is that this "loophole" only works for children (which is a good thing indeed). But, Doctors don't pursue court orders for adults.
Posts by pirata
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70Heads up, the Local Needs part this week is a special talk on blood transfusions.
by miseryloveselders ina brother called me to ask who was delivering the talk at our hall.
i didn't know what he was talking about.
he then explained to me that this week, for the local needs, congregations across the us will have a brother deliver a special outline on blood transfusions.. .
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70
Heads up, the Local Needs part this week is a special talk on blood transfusions.
by miseryloveselders ina brother called me to ask who was delivering the talk at our hall.
i didn't know what he was talking about.
he then explained to me that this week, for the local needs, congregations across the us will have a brother deliver a special outline on blood transfusions.. .
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pirata
I'm not here, but...
The talk is based on the S-55-E information sheet from the elders school.
The talk outlined the steps parents must take in order to not be considered responsible if the child ends up with a court-ordered transfusion. My high level summary:
Prepare the kid with what to say.
Tell doctors your stand.
If a doctor says that he cannot guarantee he will not give blood, but will do his very best to avoid the use of blood, then it is okay for the parents to accept the treatment and they should not be judged on this. However, they should still continue strongly object against blood transfusions.
If they are in court, and the court asks if they parents would feel it acceptable transferring the responsibility of the decision to the court, the parent must emphasize that is their responsiblity and they want no blood. Do not say in court that you want your child to be martyr, or that you're willing to let them die if it means taking blood. Rather you say that you want the best quality transfusion-alternative health care.
If the court goes ahead with the court order regardless, the parent will continue to please with all doctors and medical personal that they want blood transfusions alternatives and not a blood transfusion.
If the parent has followed all these steps, then they should not feel responsible if their child received a blood transfusion.
The jist of this was mentioned in a 1992 Kingdom Ministry article:
*** km 9/92 p. 3 par. 6 Safeguarding Your Children From Misuse of Blood ***
6 In view of this, what if, in your search for a suitable doctor for your child, you find one with a record of good cooperation with Jehovah’s Witnesses and who had in the past performed the same bloodless procedure for other Witnesses, yet he feels that the law does not allow him to give you an absolute guarantee that blood would not be used? However, he assures you that he feels there will be no problem this time as well. You may decide this is your best option. Under these circumstances you might conclude that you could grant permission to proceed. Make it quite clear, however, that in giving permission for medical treatment for your child you are not giving permission for blood transfusions. Taking this course would be a responsibility you would have to bear without your decision being viewed as a compromise.
My impression was similar to clarity's. Do what you can, and show that your are fighting (but hope like hell that they will not listen to you and instead save your kid's life). At least that's what I'd be thinking.
Until next time...
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20
See you later
by pirata init's been a year and a bit since i first joined jwn.
the guilty fascination, turned anger, turned sadness, turned acceptance has been a journey that i'm honored all of you have have been a pat of, whether you realize it or not.
although i haven't said much about myself personally, and probably won't as long as i still am a captive... er i mean a member of jehovah's witnesses, i appreciated reading all your posts, observations, stories and reality-checks.
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pirata
It's been a year and a bit since I first joined JWN. The guilty fascination, turned anger, turned sadness, turned acceptance has been a journey that I'm honored all of you have have been a pat of, whether you realize it or not. Although I haven't said much about myself personally, and probably won't as long as I still am a captive... er I mean a member of Jehovah's Witnesses, I appreciated reading all your posts, observations, stories and reality-checks. I hope to post my story here one day too.
I've gotten behind on a number of things in my life, and I need to use the hours I spend on this forum to catch up. I (probably) won't be posting or reading for a while. Hopeful we'll get that darn new light on blood by the time I return!
See you all later!
pirata.
PS. I'll be back!
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24
Is anyone here doing April's 30 hour Auxillary Pioneer Special ?
by RubaDub ini know there are many active jw's here and was just wondering if anyone is going to take advantage of april's special of only 30 hours for the month.. i actually might, just to irk some of the elders that can't figure me out in their minds.. it would involve 2 long days ... that's it.
even i can go out in fs in the morning with the group and hang out at bus stops and train stations the rest of the day.. i am really tempted.. rub a dub.
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pirata
A while back I got a talking to by the elders because I did not join in the field service group saturday mornings for a period of time. Instead I went out in service on Saturday afternoons with friends from different congregations and went out with my congregation on Sundays.
I learned from that chat that "visibility" was more important than the hours you actually put in. If you are visible, then you are encouraging the congregation, etc.
Reminds me of the "if a tree falls in a forest" saying...
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71
Just Tell Us In Plain English
by headisspinning inif god has instructions for sincere people why can't he just tell us what they are in plain language?.
he could do that and some people would fall in line and others wouldn't.. if i was god, that's what i would do.. as a parent, that's what i do with my kids.. i am so tired of all the guesswork..
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Andres' Example In the March 1,2010 Watchtower
by EmptyInside inwell, i never really paid attention before,until it was brought to my attention here on jwn,but andre sure has a lot going on in his life.. i happened to see in the march 1,2010 watchtower on page 21, the box on remarriage,the article is about the death of a marriage mate,andres,was against his father remarrying.
but,then, he realized marriage cheered his father up again.. i think finding andre is a new fun game and makes it even worth glancing through the magazines again.
lol.
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pirata
Andre's back! (June 2011 Awake!)
p3:
“I WILL never forget that Monday morning at the post office," re?ected Andre, a white South African-born man living in Namibia. “The place was jam-packed with people. I saw a suspicious bag left unattended nearby. I asked for my mail and left. After driving for only about three minutes, I heard a tremendous blast. I later learned that a bomb had exploded a few feet from where I had been standing.”
“All I wanted was to get my mail,” explained Andre. “But to realize later that innocent people, a number of whom I knew, were blown to pieces was a great shock. I still shudder, even though this occurred over 25 years ago. At times, I have recollections of the carnage I later saw and realize how close to death I came.”
p9:
Millions of people worldwide are finding that study of the Bible builds in them confidence in a secure future. For example, one day Andre was showing a neighbor the Bible’s promise of a righteous new world. (Isaiah 2:4;11:6-9;65:17,21-25;2Peter3:13) Suddenly, soldiers with automatic weapons surrounded the house and ordered Andre to come out for questioning. After learning that Andre was a Bible teacher whom his neighbor greatly appreciated, the soldiers left.
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Is anyone here doing April's 30 hour Auxillary Pioneer Special ?
by RubaDub ini know there are many active jw's here and was just wondering if anyone is going to take advantage of april's special of only 30 hours for the month.. i actually might, just to irk some of the elders that can't figure me out in their minds.. it would involve 2 long days ... that's it.
even i can go out in fs in the morning with the group and hang out at bus stops and train stations the rest of the day.. i am really tempted.. rub a dub.
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pirata
@satinka, Are you counting time while on this forum?
No, I do not count time while on this forum. I don't fake my hours either.
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21
An odd experience I had the other day...............
by nicolaou inmy job took me to a residential part of town that i would never normally have any reason to go to.
i had to go to a specific address.
i found it quite easily and parked the car about twenty yards from the customers home.. i had a sense of deja vu - but an unpleasant and rather disturbing one.. i took a good look around me.
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pirata
Thanks nicolaou! I look forward to reading your update.
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I'm a Mess
by headisspinning ini am an emotional mess.. yesterday, i was so firm.
today i feel like crying.
it was a lovely, sunny day here.
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pirata
It is normal to be a mess. Are you familiar with the 5 stages of grief? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model )
When I first started to get suspicious about the authenticity of some of "my" beliefs, I decided to "make the truth my own" and make my faith stronger through study. I allowed myself to consider 3rd party supporting material as well. It was disturbing to say the least. I started to pray something like this: "If I am in the true religion, please help make this clear to me; if this is not the true religion, please make this clear to my spouse". Neither of these has happened.
One thing that I draw comfort in is the concept that it is okay to not know all the answers. Before I used to draw comfort from the fact that all the big questions in life were answered for me and I didn't have to think about them. Now I draw comfort from the fact that there are probably no definitive answers, so I needn't be overly worried about finding them. As far as I can tell, all the "answers" out there are the guesses of other men, some more valid than others, but all equally guesses.
Reading Ray Franz's "In Search of Christian Freedom" and talking to other Christians on this board, as well as Jesus words, "where two or three are gathered together, there I am in their midst", I am more comfortable with the idea that there probably isn't any one religious group that is the "right one" on this earth. There are "good" people and "bad" people in each group. You don't have to belong to a group to be "good" or "bad". If Christianity is true, I think there are "true" Christians found in all groups, and "false" ones as well.
I honestly don't know if there is a God, and if there is, if he has established a set way of worshipping him, or if he even wants to be worshipped. The fact that there are substantial religious groups out there, Christians, Muslims, etc. that think God is going to kill everyone else, raises red flags in my mind. Finding God in the "right" way seems to be somewhat of a random event. If Islam is right, and you're born in a Christian world, you're unlikely to ever become a Muslim. If Christianity is right, and you're born in a Muslim area, you're unlikely to every become a Christian. If JWs are right then only 99% of the worlds population, including those who have never heard "the truth", are going to be destroyed. It does not seem logical, fair, or reasonable to me.
You're on the first step of your journey, don't make any impulsive decisions. Don't be too quick to latch onto another set of beliefs until you've had time to really think and process things.
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An odd experience I had the other day...............
by nicolaou inmy job took me to a residential part of town that i would never normally have any reason to go to.
i had to go to a specific address.
i found it quite easily and parked the car about twenty yards from the customers home.. i had a sense of deja vu - but an unpleasant and rather disturbing one.. i took a good look around me.
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pirata
nicolaou, have you posted anywhere the story of how your wife got free?